Contact in training

runnerninja

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In my last dojo(I moved towns so am unfortunately unable to train ther anymore) we were always told when being the attacker that we would not be doing ourselves or our partner any favours by not trying to hit them. Dont get me wrong our partner would always be prepared and we would try our best to remain controlled.

I have been to several new dojos since and am in a bit of a habit of committing to my attacks. So much so that I have been told off several times. Last week I was even warned about placing my attack anywhere near the neck(even though I was assured that in a real situation this is where you should place it!).

This has got me wondering:

While we never wore protective gear nobody ever got injured(apart from the occasional bruise - nothing serious). We were learning to be precise yet controlled.

In a real situation you may not even have time to think about where to place your attack. Do you agree that inaccurate training will lead to inaccuracy when the pressure is really on?

How do things work in your dojo? I realise that safety is of utmost importance. I just believe(from experience) that it is possible to train properly but that with a mature and controlled attitude you can still be safe.
 

bowser666

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Safety is foremost but we are also not going to perform techniques like they are in slow motion. Slow to learn the technique but then sped up as comfortably as possible depending on the level of the student. It does help to feel what it is liek to take a punch or a kick , but not at the expense of injury. It is training after all. Sparring is where you get more into feeling what it is like. :)
 

stephen

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In my last dojo(I moved towns so am unfortunately unable to train ther anymore) we were always told when being the attacker that we would not be doing ourselves or our partner any favours by not trying to hit them. Dont get me wrong our partner would always be prepared and we would try our best to remain controlled.
...

While we never wore protective gear nobody ever got injured(apart from the occasional bruise - nothing serious). We were learning to be precise yet controlled.

We train like this...Works for us too...I agree, you can't expect to train one way and fight another.
 

Dark Gift Concepts

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In my last dojo(I moved towns so am unfortunately unable to train ther anymore) we were always told when being the attacker that we would not be doing ourselves or our partner any favours by not trying to hit them. Dont get me wrong our partner would always be prepared and we would try our best to remain controlled.

I have been to several new dojos since and am in a bit of a habit of committing to my attacks. So much so that I have been told off several times. Last week I was even warned about placing my attack anywhere near the neck(even though I was assured that in a real situation this is where you should place it!).

This has got me wondering:

While we never wore protective gear nobody ever got injured(apart from the occasional bruise - nothing serious). We were learning to be precise yet controlled.

In a real situation you may not even have time to think about where to place your attack. Do you agree that inaccurate training will lead to inaccuracy when the pressure is really on?

How do things work in your dojo? I realise that safety is of utmost importance. I just believe(from experience) that it is possible to train properly but that with a mature and controlled attitude you can still be safe.

Being Safe is the best thing, go slow to medium paced controlled. I think if you feel that you might want to apply it with let's say more of you in it. Utilize a foam pad or those rubber man dolls with a stand. As you practice the technique with more force remember proper foot work and keep in mind the real opponent will or might move so be responsive. Or do as I have done, go out buy a few neck braces, soft foam and the hard plastic. Get someone to work with you and wear it and go slow till you both find a sweet spot.
 

Touch Of Death

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In my last dojo(I moved towns so am unfortunately unable to train ther anymore) we were always told when being the attacker that we would not be doing ourselves or our partner any favours by not trying to hit them. Dont get me wrong our partner would always be prepared and we would try our best to remain controlled.

I have been to several new dojos since and am in a bit of a habit of committing to my attacks. So much so that I have been told off several times. Last week I was even warned about placing my attack anywhere near the neck(even though I was assured that in a real situation this is where you should place it!).

This has got me wondering:

While we never wore protective gear nobody ever got injured(apart from the occasional bruise - nothing serious). We were learning to be precise yet controlled.

In a real situation you may not even have time to think about where to place your attack. Do you agree that inaccurate training will lead to inaccuracy when the pressure is really on?

How do things work in your dojo? I realise that safety is of utmost importance. I just believe(from experience) that it is possible to train properly but that with a mature and controlled attitude you can still be safe.
Work the strongest and weaket base of support. You should really be able to defend your self by simply touching an undefended position. Just picture everyone in class as an eight year old you can't really hurt. For instance I am aloud to hurt the females I spar with but not injure them. That takes a little skill.
Sean
 

shihansmurf

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I don't like to practice missing.

If you commit to your attacks to the proper target then pull the power/contact then I don't see the problem.

If you don't strike to the correct targets, how will your partner's learn to defend them?

Be safe, but train as realistically as you can.Your life, or that of your partner may depend on it someday.

Mark
 

terryl965

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Try to be as safe as possible but yet be as realistic as possible, so the effect will be more productive.
 

Deaf Smith

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runnerninja,

It's a kind of delima. We want to traing as realisticly as we can but we don't want serious injuries. We are no the Israeli army where there is a real chance of all out war at any moment.

I like to tell others that the punching bag is your friend. You go all out on that bag. Hopefuly you have a moving bag (Century stand alone bag on rollers works well, especially the 'Bob' version) and focus mitts. Those you go all out on. Learn power, timing, range, etc..

Then when sparing you control your power. You look to find openings on your opponent and to exploit them. BUT, not to strike hard. You learn to effective block or nullify or dodge an attack and to counter attack. You learn a real log sparring. But if it's full contact you won't learn as much as you think as you will be to busy trying to keep from being hit.

Now if you really want full contact, I suggest tournaments! Many have unlimited power rules that allow you full power in your techniques. Of course the other guy shoots back, so you might find yourself on the receiving end of some pretty vicious stuff to.

Just remember, it's a two way street if you go that route.

Deaf
 

tshadowchaser

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With the exception of making contact to the spine and eyes and knees I have always wanted my students to make contact.
CONTROLLED CONTACT that is.
The amount of force is determined by the level of who is getting hit and the experience of the attacker to control the impact
 

Cirdan

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We have a saying that the best training partner you can have is one that scares you a little and tries to hit you. On the other hand students are told to always concider the age, size and skill level of their partner.
 

MJS

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In my last dojo(I moved towns so am unfortunately unable to train ther anymore) we were always told when being the attacker that we would not be doing ourselves or our partner any favours by not trying to hit them. Dont get me wrong our partner would always be prepared and we would try our best to remain controlled.

I have been to several new dojos since and am in a bit of a habit of committing to my attacks. So much so that I have been told off several times. Last week I was even warned about placing my attack anywhere near the neck(even though I was assured that in a real situation this is where you should place it!).

This has got me wondering:

While we never wore protective gear nobody ever got injured(apart from the occasional bruise - nothing serious). We were learning to be precise yet controlled.

In a real situation you may not even have time to think about where to place your attack. Do you agree that inaccurate training will lead to inaccuracy when the pressure is really on?

How do things work in your dojo? I realise that safety is of utmost importance. I just believe(from experience) that it is possible to train properly but that with a mature and controlled attitude you can still be safe.

The martial arts involve contact. I understand that people train for various reasons, but if people can't deal with contact, then the arts are not for them. Yes, IMO, if the attacks are not realistic, you're doing a dis-service to you and them. The attack should be committed. If someone is throwing a punch and stops 5 in. away from the defender, technically, the defender doesnt even have to move, because there was really never an attack in the first place. The same with a choke. Put your hands on the neck and give some pressure. Not saying you have to make the person turn blue, but having the hands on the shoulders...sorry, thats a massage, not an attack. For a punch, put on a glove and aim for the face. If a mistake is made, at least some protection is there.

I'm not saying that people should get seriously injured, but the bumps and things like that happen. As for the defender doing his technique...same thing. I'm not saying you should strike to your partners throat, but place the strike there. You should be able to hit the body with no problem. Knees to the body, punches, elbows...nothing wrong with contact, but again, that element of control needs to be there.

To answer the other questions:

"In a real situation you may not even have time to think about where to place your attack. Do you agree that inaccurate training will lead to inaccuracy when the pressure is really on?"

Sure, when its crunch time, you may not have the target that you did in the controlled setting of the dojo, but I don't think that the defender should swing wildly either. Target availability is going to dictate what you can/cant do.

"How do things work in your dojo? I realise that safety is of utmost importance. I just believe(from experience) that it is possible to train properly but that with a mature and controlled attitude you can still be safe"

We hit. Like I said above, things are controlled, but when someone is punching me, I have 2 options...get hit or defend myself. :) There are also times when someone will pad up and give various attacks. That allows us to be able to hit a bit harder and to areas that normally would have to have a strike placed, rather than a full out hit, ie: elbow to the head.
 

Jdokan

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It's a contact environment...as long as it is not getting abusive....If people don't like contact have them play golf.....
All that said...controlled contact (which comes from practice, practice, practice) should be encouraged...anybody can throw a non-controlled strike....part of being a professional at what we do is the ability to go from 60mph to zero.....bruises...part of the game....I guess the problem with using common sense in something we are involved in is what can be common to one is a brainstorm or not even thought of by another....
 

Kacey

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In a real situation you may not even have time to think about where to place your attack. Do you agree that inaccurate training will lead to inaccuracy when the pressure is really on?

How do things work in your dojo? I realise that safety is of utmost importance. I just believe(from experience) that it is possible to train properly but that with a mature and controlled attitude you can still be safe.

I think that if you train to miss, you're going to miss. That said, there are two different ways to train to "miss" - you can miss entirely, by striking to one side of your target (e.g. punching past the ear, a foot away from the head) or you can miss by stopping before you reach the target (e.g. punching at the nose but stopping short - how short depends on your skill level - so that by extending the technique you could still hit).

We spar with pads for tournaments (insurance requirements) and with or without pads in class, depending. All rounds are "contact" - but I put that in quotes because for white belts without pads, "contact" is aiming at the right target but stopping about a foot away; yellow belts the same, but the distance is reduced to 6"; green belts 3", blue belts 1", red belts touch. When wearing pads, all rounds are contact.

It's a martial art - you're going to get hit, it's going to hurt, and it's likely to bruise; rarely, injuries can be more severe - but we practice focus in several ways, some with partners and some in sparring drills, to the point that all students can hit full-speed, full power, at any point they choose - whether that point is the belt knot, the sternum, the nose - or an inch behind any of those targets. We drill against stationary partners without pads (to get students used to hitting real people) and against moving partners with and without pads (sparring) - with for tournament training, and without for self-defense. More students have trouble hitting a target point wearing pads than without them, because the pads cause a false sense of security - that's why we train more without pads than with.
 

Andrew Green

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I think contact ios absolutely essential. Why would you go into a class that is about how to fight if you don't want any contact?

But, I also believe that it is important to follow the rules of the club you are training in. If you disagree with those rules it's not the right club for you.
 

KELLYG

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Where I train if you are working on a particular drill it is worked slowly at first till the techniques is obtained then it is worked harder and faster. I have always been told that it is my job to strike the target. It's the defender's job to preform the technique. We both have the understanding that if I, the attacker, do my job and the defender gets hit then it's on him. The strike will probably get there attention such that it won't happen again. With that said I meter my attacks according to whom I training with. A while belt will get much less intensity than a Black Belt. A strong Black Belt will get more intensity than a weaker/new one. If I am told to back the level down than I will do it gladly, the result of backing down will be on them as well.
 

hogstooth

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I remember taking classes as a kid in the 70's and 80's and not thinking anything about going home with the occasional bruise or knot on my head. Times have changed. Your old instructor is a product of different times. Now we have a country that is so lawyered up that instructors are scared to allow contact because of a potential law suit. As a result I think the arts suffer.
It is my stance that contact is an absolute must. A teacher that never allows a student to experience contact is not doing the student any justice. If you pull your punches 3" away from your target every time you spar what do you think your going to do when in
a real situation?
There is no excuse for not including contact. Especially with all of the padding and gear they have now days. Years ago they didn't use padding and believe it our not we all survived.
 
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