Self Defense Sales Pitches

[Steve]

If this were the description of a school someone shared with you and asked you if you'd recommend it, what would you say? This is an actual description of a school posted on their site. I edited out the identifying information, as that's not the point.

The [xyz dojo] is an independent martial art school, teaching a range of traditional Japanese martial arts, weaponry skills and defence, and modern self defence methods adapted for relevance and practicality in today’s world. These three areas are collectively referred to in our school as [very traditional sounding japanese with kanji]… the Study of Martial Art Strategies.

The [xyz dojo] is open to both students who have never studied martial arts, as well as students who have trained in other disciplines and are looking to expand into new areas. There is no necessary fitness level required, and the training is paced towards they individual students skills and abilities. The school offers a comprehensive program designed to build your physical and mental strength, while developing your strategic thinking and situational awareness.

Unlike many physical arts which are implemented as a sport, the [xyz dojo] provides you with skills and techniques that can be directly utilised in real world situations. Historically these are military tools, designed to be swift, highly effective and final. From hand to hand combat available at a moments notice in self defence situations, through to the use of both ancient and modern weapons and armour, the skills found in the [xyz dojo] will build your confidence and put you in control.

Our students come from a wide range of places. Some have developed an interest in the history of martial arts, and want to experience authentic techniques and teaching. Some may have learnt strength yet feel they need to develop their self-control. Others are interested in learning to defend themselves, wanting confidence when they are in public. The consistent theme is a person looking to better themselves, and searching for help and guidance in doing so.

With any new capability comes responsibility. The [xyz dojo] employs safe, reliable teaching methods, designed to minimise the impact of physical training and prevent injury, as well as allow students to develop skills in the quickest, most effective way possible. We consider the health and wellbeing of our students to be of the highest importance, and heavily promote and drill the safe use of the tools and techniques we train.

 

[jobo]

If this were the description of a school someone shared with you and asked you if you'd recommend it, what would you say? This is an actual description of a school posted on their site. I edited out the identifying information, as that's not the point.

it builds your physical and mental strength, two prerequisites to sd and gives you tools, it doesn't make any wild claims as to your abilities, it makes a big thing of you not being injured whilst learning, obviously a plus for the intended demographic

what's not to like ? if you don't fancy being punched on the nose a lot it could be the school for you

 

[JowGaWolf]

Not sure if I would recommend the school, but it would make me want to watch one of their classes, to see if the training matches the advertising.

I would have to have some interaction with the school in order to recommend it. Martial arts stuff is so unclear that I wouldn't recommend any school off the back, unless I knew what it actually knew how they trained and the mindset of the school.

 

[geezer]

Sounds like pretty typical advertising to me. The usual objections apply, but as Jobo said, it's directed at a particular demographic that probably doesn't want to get too physical.

I teach to the same demographic, I guess. When a student asks if what we train will be reliable in a physical altercation, I say no.

Sure, many of the techniques are solid, but if you want to train to fight, you have to train like a fighter. If we did that everybody in my group would quit ...except for one guy, a good friend who splits his time between me and an MMA gym.

Oh, did I mention that I'm down to a handful of students? Being honest is not such a great thing in business!

One other thing, when it comes to self defense I make a big point about awareness and avoidance first. De-escalation and/or escape second. If it devolves to the point where you have to defend yourself physically, you've already lost, even if you "win" the fight. Now that's honest and I stand behind it.

 

[MetalBoar]

As far as giving a recommendation goes, it would depend on who is asking my opinion and what their goals are. If someone asked me if I would want to train with this place then these are the parts I'd talk about:

Unlike many physical arts which are implemented as a sport, the [xyz dojo] provides you with skills and techniques that can be directly utilised in real world situations. Historically these are military tools, designed to be swift, highly effective and final. From hand to hand combat available at a moments notice in self defence situations, through to the use of both ancient and modern weapons and armour, the skills found in the [xyz dojo] will build your confidence and put you in control.

The parts in bold here are things I would see as being mild red flags. The first sentence would make me want some clarification about what they see as the difference between "sport" and "real world" situations. They might have a great answer for that or they might be selling a fantasy. It get's a bit more concerning with the next part, when I see someone talk about "military", "real world" and "ancient weapons" all in the same sentence it makes me wonder whether they're LARPing or not. I also find the verbiage of "build your confidence and put you in control" a little off putting based on past experience with other schools but it's hardly a deal breaker.

Our students come from a wide range of places. Some have developed an interest in the history of martial arts, and want to experience authentic techniques and teaching. Some may have learnt strength yet feel they need to develop their self-control. Others are interested in learning to defend themselves, wanting confidence when they are in public. The consistent theme is a person looking to better themselves, and searching for help and guidance in doing so.

Again, the sentence in bold is another sour note for me. It may just be poor marketing and/or poor writing skills but it comes across as overblown and on top of that I have no interest in training with people who need to work on their self control.

Over all most martial artists can't put together a good website to save their lives and their copywriting skills aren't usually much better and they frequently can't pay professionals to do either of these things for them. I don't make recommendations strictly based on websites as a general rule. I do filter my own choices based on them, though I recognize that I probably filter out some perfectly good schools because of this. Without knowing more it wouldn't make the cut for my current list of the schools I intend try out as soon as I'm fully vaccinated, but as I said in another thread I've got more than 20 good looking schools within about 10-15 minutes of my house so that's a not a particularly low bar. I can't say much about this school without any further context and I would neither recommend nor discourage someone else from trying them out based on what little is here. I would recommend that they look out for signs of LARPing and not sign any contracts if they were to give them a try but I say that about most places.

 

[Steve]

Sounds like pretty typical advertising to me. The usual objections apply, but as Jobo said, it's directed at a particular demographic that probably doesn't want to get too physical.

I teach to the same demographic, I guess. When a student asks if what we train will be reliable in a physical altercation, I say no.

Sure, many of the techniques are solid, but if you want to train to fight, you have to train like a fighter. If we did that everybody in my group would quit ...except for one guy, a good friend who splits his time between me and an MMA gym.

Oh, did I mention that I'm down to a handful of students? Being honest is not such a great thing in business!

One other thing, when it comes to self defense I make a big point about awareness and avoidance first. De-escalation and/or escape second. If it devolves to the point where you have to defend yourself physically, you've already lost, even if you "win" the fight. Now that's honest and I stand behind it.

Problem I see is that this kind of rhetoric specifically markets itself as being somehow MORE effective for self defense and also not hard. It's that kind of language that seems overtly dishonest to me.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Oh, did I mention that I'm down to a handful of students? Being honest is not such a great thing in business!

Being honest is good. Being specific may be better. That way you can customize the answer. Being specific = Asking student what do they want to get from the training. Then you do the best that you can to help them reach that goal. That way you can avoid questions like. "if what we train will be reliable in a physical altercation"

This was one of the summaries for the school that I used to train in
"Jow Ga is a traditional Kung Fu fighting system that's well known for being a practical fighting system, making it excellent for self-defense in today’s modern society. Jow Ga emphasizes big punches, strong strikes, efficient attacks, fluid defense and strong stances. This system makes use of hard and soft fighting techniques along with quick footwork. Jow Ga is a well-rounded fighting system that includes grappling anti grappling techniques which is vital in a world of MMA grappling style opponents."

I highlighted the Marketing language that I used. Search terms that I needed to cover were self-defense, practical fighting, grappling, anti grappling. MMA,

This words used to rank high in googles search engine.. anti grappling was the biggest Marketing phrase during this time. It's all grappling, but this was when a lot of people who were interested in kung fu was looking for a way to beat BJJ. Once I got a chance to meet the potential student, I could be more specific in these areas. The face to face allowed me to define practical fighting system, anti-grappling, which I explained was the same as grappling. This would hen allow me to demo techniques first hand with the potential student.

I forgot what I used to say about MMA to the potential student. Once you are able to get into the details of some of those general statements, the student begins to get a better understanding of my mindset and the training the school does.

When a student asks if what we train will be reliable in a physical altercation,

I don't think I was ever asked this question before. I try to nip questions with the advertisement.


This followed the 1st advertising above" Here I try to bring the reader or potential student back down to earth when it comes to Self-defense and fighting.

"Jow Ga Instructors are dedicated to the training and conditioning of Jow Ga students. Self-defense and fighting is like every sport and activity that we do in life. It takes practice and conditioning to become good enough to use it."

People may not be familiar with Martial Arts practice but they understand that it takes practice and conditioning to be good in a lot of things. Singers can't sing without practice and conditioning.. Most people understand the concept of working hard to get better at something. This type of marketing gave us at least one new member a month., which is good, since out training space could only hold 20 people in the room for training.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Sounds like they're trying to be all things for all people, covering all the bases. To actually do this effectively is next to impossible. To paraphrase: "Ancient armor AND real world situations? Military...hand to hand combat, swift and final AND safe...minimizing impact of physical training?" Reminds me of ads promising weight loss without exercising or dieting. I find this kind of ad an insult to my intelligence.

This school may teach some good things, but the wide net they cast turns me off. Experience has shown me that outfits that over promise usually under deliver. Can't see this ad attracting focused, serious-minded students.

From a marketing perspective, a single ad targeting a large demographic is ineffective for many product types. It would be smarter to have separate ads for different demographics -one ad for the touchy feely crowd and kids, another ad for the no-nonsense physical combat oriented crowd, and another for those seeking a traditional MA approach. Not saying this would make this school any better, just saying it would be smarter advertising.

 

[Saheim]

Not sure if I would recommend the school, but it would make me want to watch one of their classes, to see if the training matches the advertising.

I would have to have some interaction with the school in order to recommend it. Martial arts stuff is so unclear that I wouldn't recommend any school off the back, unless I knew what it actually knew how they trained and the mindset of the school.

Got to agree. Recommend it? Don't know, I'd have to jump in a class and see (I've always been put off by schools that tell me "you can watch a class", when I am wearing sweats and a T shirt) BUT I would be curious. There's nothing in that description that really turns me off. It sounds like typical sales play but nothing over the top. I'd check the place out.

 

[Tez3]

The one thing very few places ever tell you is that it takes a lot of training and hard practice before what you have learnt in self defence can be utilised swiftly and instinctively when you need it.
This place like many others implies they can give you the tools to defend yourself quite quickly is 'directly'.
The military part always makes me smile, conjuring up spec forces creeping around bumping off the enemy when as a whole the military really doesn't use much hand to hand now but it does make clubs/schools sound tough.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Looks like a standard pitch to me honestly. Maybe award of the fact martial dance and martial art come under the same defition and trying to remove themselves from the former. (or at least trying to make them sound more combat than sports based)

 

[JowGaWolf]

Got to agree. Recommend it? Don't know, I'd have to jump in a class and see (I've always been put off by schools that tell me "you can watch a class", when I am wearing sweats and a T shirt) BUT I would be curious. There's nothing in that description that really turns me off. It sounds like typical sales play but nothing over the top. I'd check the place out.

From a business point of view, I would recommend the following
Use the adds to get get a person interested enough to contact the school by phone or by email
Use the conversation by phone or by email to get them to visit the school
Use the visit to the school to get them in a trial class hopefully on the same day they visit
Use that trial class to help close the deal.

The school I was in used to give 1 month free to try the class. We figured that if they took advantage of that then we can start getting them used to being there and interacting. This means they would start missing the interaction with the people in the school. This would make them more likely to stay.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Looks like a standard pitch to me honestly. Maybe award of the fact martial dance and martial art come under the same defition and trying to remove themselves from the former. (or at least trying to make them sound more combat than sports based)

speaking of separation. I like how a martial arts system was changed to combat system. Combat Wing Chun, Combat Karate, Combat [enter system name]

 

[jobo]

speaking of separation. I like how a martial arts system was changed to combat system. Combat Wing Chun, Combat Karate, Combat [enter system name]

but that is surely a return to its roots, they were combat systems before they morphed into non combat systems

putting that is really a necessity to separate it from art for arts sake systems

 

[Deleted member 39746]

speaking of separation. I like how a martial arts system was changed to combat system. Combat Wing Chun, Combat Karate, Combat [enter system name]

In fairness for some, they do legitimately have two seperate currciluems for this. Like if we look at Sambo, Sport and Combat sambo are at least diffrent enough to warrant a diffrent name.

 

[TSDTexan]

speaking of separation. I like how a martial arts system was changed to combat system. Combat Wing Chun, Combat Karate, Combat [enter system name]

Tactical Tai Chi Chuan....

 

[Urban Trekker]

The [xyz dojo] is an independent martial art school, teaching a range of traditional Japanese martial arts, weaponry skills and defence, and modern self defence methods adapted for relevance and practicality in today’s world.

The first word that caught my attention is "independant." I'm sure I'll catch some flack for this, but I take "independant" to mean that what they teach is not recognized by anyone outside of the school, which I don't see as a good thing.

These three areas are collectively referred to in our school as [very traditional sounding japanese with kanji]… the Study of Martial Art Strategies.

If these Japanese-sounding words are words that I've never heard before, I'd definitely Google them to find out what they are, and then judge the statement from there.

Unlike many physical arts which are implemented as a sport, the [xyz dojo] provides you with skills and techniques that can be directly utilised in real world situations.

I'm sure I'll catch some flack for this too: if a particular martial art can't (or, more realistically, won't) be used in sport, it's probably because they're trying to hide something from public scrutiny.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The first word that caught my attention is "independant." I'm sure I'll catch some flack for this, but I take "independant" to mean that what they teach is not recognized by anyone outside of the school, which I don't see as a good thing.

They could be just a school that's not part of an association. That means they can solve that problem and create their own association. School of 1. That would be one of the questions I would ask the schools though. I would curious to know why they stress Independent.

 

[Urban Trekker]

They could be just a school that's not part of an association. That means they can solve that problem and create their own association. School of 1. That would be one of the questions I would ask the schools though. I would curious to know why they stress Independent.

I'd only accept that new association if they were previously part of an older existing one and had split off from it. Even then, I'd do some digging around to find the reason behind the split.

An association of one school, I'd never accept. The way I see it, an association would admit them as a member if they believed that what they were teaching was legit. On the flipside, if they start their own association, other schools would join if they believed in it.

 

[geezer]

Being honest is good. Being specific may be better. That way you can customize the answer. ...That way you can avoid questions like. "if what we train will be reliable in a physical altercation"

I can't imagine why you would want to avoid such an important question, unless you just want to sign-up students, regardless.

For example, a number of years ago I had a middle aged man sign up for lessons with his petite 12 year-old daughter. He told me that his concern was that he shared custody of his daughter with his ex and her new boyfriend. According to him, the ex was an addict and the new boyfriend was a drug dealing thug who was dangerously abusive to his daughter. Worse, when the ex and boyfriend had custody, they stayed in a trailer in a remote desert area with no neighbors close by. He wanted to know if the martial art I was teaching would enable his little girl to protect herself.

I did not "customize" my answer. It was a simple "no".

Basically I told him what a I stated above. That even for physically capable adults, self-defense is about awareness, avoidance, de-escalation, and/or escape. Having to defend yourself physically is your last and worst choice. And for a little girl stuck out in the middle of nowhere, trying to physically defend herself against a thuggish step dad was no choice!

Now admittedly, that is an extreme case, but I run into similar, but less extreme cases all the time. How about the case of my step-brother's little kid who was given his TKD 2nd degree black belt at age 12, and told me that because of his training he could defend himself with his empty hands against a knife attack ...even from an adult.

I grabbed a plastic spatula off the kitchen counter and harmlessly educated him as to the error of his thinking.

Anyway, I digress. I've been doing TMA for a long time and I believe it has a lot to offer many people. But I'm fed up with exaggerations and false claims ....usually justified by folks saying "I'm just trying to run a business". Maybe I'm naive, since I'm not teaching to make a living, but I think you should be able to "run a business" without deceiving your students.