Darth F.Takeda
Blue Belt
It's time to stop pondering on the Internet and get going.
Conditioning
- Thread starter CuongNhuka
- Start date
OP
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #22
It is that importent, to some of us atleast. I'm trying to come up with a routine that is short, simple, and effective that we can do as a team. And then, the team members can do the standard routine PT on there own time, or include parts, or what ever they like.
I'm also aware that there is no "magic bullet"
OP
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #23
http://www.maxmuscle.com/index.cfm?fa=article&doc_id=536&subcat=performance_conditioning
If someone is doing the things you've mentioned, I've never heard of it, but I'm no expert on boxing either. In any case, I really don't know what else to suggest for you. IMHO, I've always been taught that if you want to get better at something, you need to do that activity over and over. I've been training in the martial arts for a long time now and I havent come across any short cuts. Nothing IMO is going to come without hard work.
Good luck with the training and let us know how the event goes.
Mike
Talk to Tahuti about the boxer example I gave. Again, the problem is, we have 4 hours a week to train for an 8 hour event. It is not possible for us to do a Raider Challenge to train for a Raider challenge.
OP
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #24
Of course, that should go with out saying.
OP
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #25
Again, this is what we have been doing, it is not working as well as people seem to think. Few us (well, only one of us) the time to devot to doing what you are suggesting.
1) Talk to who?
2) I'm getting the impression that not everyone is as into this as they should be. Is it necessary for everyone to train together? I guess I'm missing why someone couldn't wake up an hour early in the AM and crank out pushups and situps. What about in the evening? The pushups, situps and running can be done then no?
3) Is it necessary to actually do the full event during the training time? Like I said, I didn't train 5 hrs a day for a 5 hr. black belt test. I busted my butt during regular class, I busted my butt on my own. The end result..I passed. I get the impression that you're looking for a secret. There is none.
If this is the case, how does anyone expect to win?
Okay, I have to say that the above 2 statements you made appear to be in direct contradiction to each other: to me, you said that the PT could be done in small pieces, and to MJS you said that you can't do a "practice" challenge because you don't have the time. Even marathoners and distance cyclists don't practice the entire event to prep for the event - they practice in chunks of varying times as they work toward the actual much longer event.
Then few of you - or only one of you - is truly committed to your supposed team goal. No matter what you say - if member(s) of the team don't do the time, they won't perform well; all the excuses about work and significant others are just that - excuses. If you and your team want to do well, you're going to have to find the time to work - and work hard - or you're not going to get what you want. So - as has been said - get off the 'net and start working, and convince your teammates to do otherwise. If you want advice on how to be successful, you've been given it, and rejected it. Perhaps, instead of hanging about on the 'net, you should go talk to some of the teams that are more successful than yours, and find out what their training regimen is, and change yours to be more similar to theirs.
And here's a thought... have you considered that one reason the coach doesn't have as much time for your team is his perception that your team (or members thereof) just aren't committed enough to the goal - and therefore he's working with the teams whose members are committed, as shown by their actions in terms of their training level?
Can't really add anything to that.
If you're only doing it 3-4 hours per week I can imagine that it's not working ... but if you were doing it 3 hours a day, I imagine you'd be making gains by now. If it's still not working, then up it.
I suppose I should ask what does "working" mean to you? Are you dripping sweat with shaky legs after each workout and sore the next day or is it not enough to get you sweating? What EXACTLY is it you're not getting? Are you not getting enough muscle mass gain to suit your fancy? Are you still sucking wind after 1 lap around the football field? What?
Other than that, I have no more advice for you because either you're not doing what you say you're doing, have reached a point of diminished returns, or are just not cut out for this.
Good luck.
OP
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #29
Tahuti, is one of the newer members. He/she (not sure which) posted in the thread about weight training. We talked earlier, which is where I got the boxing example.
The problem isn't that we cann't train for it on our own. The problem is how it's hard. There are a couple more events I didn't mention because they aren't physical. But between those events, and ones I already mentioned, the whole challenge takes 8 hours. Doing APFT, running a 10K, doing the challenge course, doing a Biathalon, or makeing a rope bridge aren't that hard. Neither is walking between events. It's hard because we are basicly running 10 miles (when all is said and done), and working all day. Thats what we need to train for, and we cann't do that by cranking out a few dozen push ups, sit ups, and running laps. Trust me, I've tried.
No, I'm looking for some kind of conditioning other then the tired ideas you are giving me. Say, do me a favor and google Alexander Zass. You might get a slightly better idea of what I'm talking about.
OK... so, you're saying that because only one of us has no life, we cann't hope to win. That doesn't sound fair.
OP
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #30
Again, it's hard becuase thew whole thing lasts 8 hours. He said we should try to do everything only a little more of it. We cann't do that, or even a regular legnth challenge on our own. If it was that simple, I wouldn't be asking.
Here is the training regiment of the more successful teams. Join the team as a freshman, don't get considered to go to a challenge until you're a senior, and join the military. And yes, I am completely serious. No one on our team is in the military, so thats a no go.
They do a differnit kind of compition. And it has nothing to do with sergeant. The problem is the gods on high (also known as our principle) has dictated to our SI that he is going to work with the drill teams. It has nothing to do with sergeant.
OP
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #31
Working means that by the end of practice some days, I can hardly walk. Working means that in one year I went barely being able to run a half mile, to being able to run two is a fairly good time.
What we'ree not getting is the amount of strenght and endurance needed for this kind of challenge.
The problem is, we have reached the point of dimished return, for the most part. The people who actually want to do well, do infact train alot. Problem is, we have basicly all reached the point of dimished return doing what we have been doing, with the time we are given (also determined by the Gods on High). I'm trying to find something that's harder, so we can go abouve the platoe we have hit.
Is this helping any?
You're full of excuses and complaints and supposed reasons why your team is at such a disadvantage...
Guess what?
I bet if you asked any of the other teams, they aren't doing more than an occasional all-day, all-event practice. Even the ones that are seniors and in the military (I doubt their active duty, as your describing them as both high school students and soldiers...) aren't doing Raider Challenge training all day, every day.
You and your team need to maximize your time. Each member needs to commit themselves to meeting the fitness portion of the challenge on their own time -- so that the 3 or 4 hours a week you can manage to squeeze out together can be spent practicing the things you need to do as a team. That will mean finding an hour or two at least 3 or 4 hours a day to work out; running (or any cardio) just plain takes time. But, you can do pushups anytime, almost anywhere; when a colleague of mine was preparing for the Q-course as a reservist in the Army, he and I both did pushups and situps as a "break." He ran after work, every day. He wasn't being paid; he simply made the time.
Have you gone to your principal, and discussed this? Perhaps if you let him know that the drill team training is preventing your team from getting coaching, he'll work something out. But if he never hears about it -- he won't ever do anything about it.
One thing about workouts, is that there are countless variations. Go to any bookstore and you'll see a huge variety of workout suggestions. Google I'm sure, would provide many too. Thing is, when deciding upon a workout, the goal has to be decided upon first. Depending on the goal, that will determine what workout is best suited to meet that goal.
If this is accurate, yeah, its close to 10mi. Let me ask you this. How are the other groups preparing for this? Do they work too? The thing with training, especially for a long event, is that it needs to be done on a constant basis. As an example: I work with a guy who is trying to become a cop. He tends to wait until about a month before the agility test, before he starts to run. Do you know the outcome? He fails the run! Why? Because instead of busting his *** all the time, instead of maintaining his fitness, so that when a test comes up, all he'll really need to do, is work on the time, he waits. But this is him, back to you and the team. I think you should get some suggestions from other people who're also doing this event, and see how they're working it all into their day.
I still stand by what I said earlier. If you want to get better at something, you need to do whatever it is, over and over and over and over. If I want to speak better Spanish, talking French isn't going to help me. I need to speak Spanish. If I want to become more flexable, I need to stretch everyday. If I want to become better at sparring, I need to spar, not do kata. See what I mean? Once again, there is no magic trick.
Don't put words in my mouth. You said this:
And I said:
Its that simple dude. If JROTC is something you all want to do, then you need to commit to it..period! If people don't have the time, then they should quit, because not only do they not have the desire, but their lack of desire will effect those who do have it.
There is only so much time in a day. Everyone on your team needs to sit down and put their priorities in order. It all comes down to this...you either want it or you don't.
Mike
Yup. I get it now. I think you guys have a few problems:
I think you are only training on practice days since you're not forthcoming on your exact training schedule - you're not training every day on your own time.
I think you need to train with water on your back.
I think you need to learn how to conserve your energy.
I think you need to figure out how to dig deep down for extra strength.
Let me tell you a short story. A master in our system holds a military-style 3-day training camp every couple of years. When I attended it I had recently had a child, so I was still out of shape and was nursing a baby - my fitness level was very low. We had an exercise called flower situps - every sits in a circle linking feet and arms and you have to all sit up at the same time. We were to do 200. I started tiring at 60 - but you can't stop at 60. I almost puked at 80 - but you can't stop at 80. At 120 they started screaming and spitting in my face telling me to quit. I didn't.
Something clicked. You have to find how you can put your head into a "mind over matter" situation.
If you need some motivation for that, think about this for just a second: You've just gotten home from JROTC and your extremities are shaking, you're thirsty as hell, your mind is pudding and all you want to do is get water and collapse in the heap of dirty clothes on your floor. You find yourself interrupting a home invasion robbery and they come for you.
What are you going to do? Collapse in a heap on the floor, wishing you had the strength to fight back? Cooperate?
You get something called a second wind and you suddenly have all the strength, flexibility, mental acuity you need to fight for days.
You need to find that point in yourself where you can dig down deep and pull up what you need to pull up in order to do what you need to do.
Oh, and I never got sore from those 200 situps.
And if this thread doesn't help you :mst: then talk to a PE coach at your school.
OP
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #35
Tried. Between me and the other members of the team, sergeant, and major, we have tried a total 12 times in the last year. She doesn't care. Drill wins more trouphies, drill gets more attention.
CN,
Let me start off by saying that I really don't think anyone here, thats giving you advice, is trying to steer you in the wrong direction. One thing about advice...its up to the person getting it, to take that advice, sort it out, and apply whats useful. I know that you're probably very frustrated, but keep in mind, that any time things are typed, its harder to understand, because its really not 1 on 1, face to face. Its like tech. support. They listen to the person on the phone, they know what they mean, but they need to make the other person understand too.
As for this situation you're in. You have received great advice. I think that you and your team need to seriously sit down, and plan out a strategy. You need to talk to others and get some training tips. You need to write out your training days and what you're going to do on those days. You need to organize.
Like I said, you have some damn good advice. Take it and put it to use.
Mike
Let me start off by saying that I really don't think anyone here, thats giving you advice, is trying to steer you in the wrong direction. One thing about advice...its up to the person getting it, to take that advice, sort it out, and apply whats useful. I know that you're probably very frustrated, but keep in mind, that any time things are typed, its harder to understand, because its really not 1 on 1, face to face. Its like tech. support. They listen to the person on the phone, they know what they mean, but they need to make the other person understand too.
As for this situation you're in. You have received great advice. I think that you and your team need to seriously sit down, and plan out a strategy. You need to talk to others and get some training tips. You need to write out your training days and what you're going to do on those days. You need to organize.
Like I said, you have some damn good advice. Take it and put it to use.
Mike
OP
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #37
As a little update. I decided that after I got off I would do a little session of training, useing the ideas I had already gotten. I did a condensed (keep that word in mind) version of what I had come up with. By, the way, that is a mix of the traditional stuff, some old school conditioning (meaning holding the Wing Chun stance while I did some of the other exerices), some stuff from Alexander Zass (which would be chain pulling), a little clubbell work, and some other body weight drills that have recently been developed.
It took a half hour, and was harder then two hours of the traditional work out, that everyone is telling me I need to do.
It took a half hour, and was harder then two hours of the traditional work out, that everyone is telling me I need to do.
Sounds like you finally figured it out for yourself, then. Of course you *did* receive a lot of cross-training suggestions. You just found what worked for you.
Glad that you found something that seems to be working for you. One thing to keep in mind while you're training. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that this is going to be an endurance event? That being said, and if it is, then you need to make sure you don't neglect that. In other words, if I was training to do a timed run, lets say 1 1/2 miles, I'd want to train for 2-2 1/2 miles. Why? So my body is used to going the distance. Preparing for a longer distance will make that shorter distance seem like a walk in the park.
Additionally, don't knock the traditional methods over something that supposedly 'new and improved.' Planned out right, in a half hour, you could get a hell of a workout with those pushups, situps and running, but what do I know.
Mike
Speaking from experience, I definitely agree with this.
Try this simple little workout: repetitive sets consisting of three exercises - ten squats (body weight only), five or six pushups, and five crunches. If you can work your way up to thirty minutes of this at a good pace, you will be surprised at the energy you will burn.
You can substitute other bodyweight exercises for the pushups (pullups, dips, etc.).
You can do this anywhere - all you need is a few square feet of floor space.
Trust me, it's a lot more demanding than it sounds.
