Can you kill some one with their own nose??

[myusername]

Hello folks,

I was having a chat with a friend at work this lunch time who did martial arts when he was at school. He was informed by his instructor (5th Dan, Karate) that if you smacked somebody hard enough in the nose you can send their nose right through their brain, thus immediately killing them. I disputed this as when I was working on striking points in my jujutsu class I remembered that my instructor made a point of dimissing this "killer strike" as a myth. He argued that it is cartilage and as such would just be extremely painful but would not be strong enough to pierce the brain. Obviously at this stage it is just my instructor's word over his. So I am throwing the question out to the experts!

I know that if you hit anybody in the head hard enough they may die anyway but I am specifically referring to the idea behind this strike of the nose piercing the brain.

Here is Bruce Willis in the "Last Boy Scout" performing the strike (1.47mins in)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XvIVe28-T_0

So good people.........

Is this a martial art myth or not?

 

[Nolerama]

I've been told by doctor friends that it's a myth. What happens is that you fracture someone's nose and the cartilage and/or give them a severe concussion.

 

[hkfuie]

I decided not to argue over this one with a doctor I know. Maybe he's right and it is true, but I am buying the story that it is physically impossible.

 

[Tez3]

Noleramas correct, it's cartilege and won't pierce the brain. Look at skulls there's never a 'nose' on them. You'll break their nose and make them quite annoyed!

 

[Nolerama]

If someone hit me with, say, an upward, open palm and it shattered my nose and face, I would definitely be severely demoralized. But then again, I'd do the Tyler Durden thing and try to take mount on my opponent and bleed a lot on that person while screaming "You don't know where i've been!!" and laughing hysterically. But that's just me.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

I have asked a few doctors their opinion on it, and they all said emphatically that it was a myth.

on the other hand I have never seen a report, news story, or anything that has shown that anyone was killed by this.

In theory if you smash a persons face hard enough and break the actual bone in a way that shatters it and pushes it into the brain it is possible, but not like they show in the movies in my opinion.
Hard to say something is impossible, as it only takes once to prove you wrong. Improbably is a definite maybe though LOL

 

[Tez3]

I remember this coming up on here before and I remember someone posting that if you smashed the nose in with the butt of a rifle it would kill you! which it would! Hands up please who that was!

 

[myusername]

I remember this coming up on here before and I remember someone posting that if you smashed the nose in with the butt of a rifle it would kill you! which it would! Hands up please who that was!

Bugger, sorry folks I should have done a search!

 

[Tez3]

I can't remember if it was the subject of a thread or just came up in one, I think it was maybe in one of the martial arts myths ones?

 

[MA-Caver]

Am not sure but Myth Busters worked on this one and debunked it hard-core.

Like Tez sez... look at the skeletal structure of the human skull... there is nothing hard enough to pierce the bone...

You'd think MA-ist everywhere had outgrown this myth.

 

[myusername]

You'd think MA-ist everywhere had outgrown this myth.

To be fair to the guy's old instructor. The chap I was talking to hasn't trained since he was at school so we would be talking the 1980's when he would have given out this info to my pal.

Funny thing, My friend seemed slightly suspicious when I dismissed this as a myth. Don't think he quite believed me, but I might print this thread out and show him!

 

[hkfuie]

If it were true we'd probably have heard some story somewhere of someone being prosecuted for killing someone this way.

 

[kidswarrior]

I remember this coming up on here before and I remember someone posting that if you smashed the nose in with the butt of a rifle it would kill you! which it would!

Good point, Tez. But essentially caving someone's face in with a blunt instrument would damage/kill them for different reasons than (the improbable odds of) driving a splinter into their brain.

When I shatter this myth in class, my teenage students look at me like I've just told them there's no Santa. Kinda like when I tell them they don't have to register their hands with the police: 'but my stepfather/uncle/homie told me he's registered cuz he's so dangerous the police will call SWAT if he even gets pulled over in a traffic stop.' :lol:

 

[Tez3]

Found it!

It was Master Jay S Penfil and I quote

"The strike to the nose that forced the bone up into the brain was in fact a real technique that was taught and worked consistently in military engagements…

Of course, it worked consistently when the strike was made with the butt of a rifle, not simply a hand…"


I imagine the bone forced up was probably the entire front of the skull caving in!

 

[David Weatherly]

I still hear a lot of martial artist that believe this is a killing strike. A basic study of the structure of the body proves otherwise. Plus, as someone pointed out, I've never heard of anyone actually being killed with this strike.

David

 

[terryl965]

I believe in Dragonball Z Guko killed a saren with this strike but then the saren came back after a lay off.

 

[kidswarrior]

I believe in Dragonball Z Guko killed a saren with this strike but then the saren came back after a lay off.

Wow, came back after a long layoff? Musta had a good union. :lol:

 

[jks9199]

Is it theoretically possible that an upwardly directed strike to the bottom of the nose/lower face could kill someone? Sure. I can think of a couple of possible mechanisms. Is it because of bone shards being driven into the brain? I doubt it; others have covered this pretty well. Maybe, just possibly, if everything worked out just right... but the more likely result is a broken nose.

Yet I've had people argue with me that their "self defense class" teacher told them this, so it's gotta be true! Physiology, common sense... even the utter lack of anyone apparently ever dying this way doesn't deter them! :shrug:

 

[Jade Tigress]

To be fair to the guy's old instructor. The chap I was talking to hasn't trained since he was at school so we would be talking the 1980's when he would have given out this info to my pal.

This myth has apparently been around forever because I remember hearing it when I was a kid in the '70's.

 

[Drac]

This myth has apparently been around forever because I remember hearing it when I was a kid in the '70's.

Same here...