Bullies: Some Random Thoughts

[wingchun100]

Isn't it amazing how bullies seem to be magnets and, like the Death Star tractor beam, suck smaller objects (AKA people) into their world? I was thinking about this simply because my mother-in-law is a bully, and this is what happens with her: she doesn't like me; for whatever reason she thinks I am a piece of garbage. So if someone new meets her before they get to know me well and she tells them something like "oh yeah, my piece of crap son-in-law," THEY have a negative opinion of me too based on what she said...without even really knowing me! In their minds, her word is good enough to think of me as worthless; they need to invest no effort into getting to know me and finding out for themselves simply because SHE said I'm nothing.

I'm not asking the woman to think I walk on water...I would just like the respect I deserve. Why do I think I deserve it? Well, first of all because I have never shown anything BUT respect to her. But I guess that doesn't really matter here. The lesson to be learned: some people are just douche bags.

But still, having recognized that, I can't help but find myself dwelling on this every now and then. I'm curious enough to wonder what others may think of this phenomenon. What do YOU think it is? Are the people around her too lazy to form their own opinion, and it's easier for them to just go by hers? Or are they afraid of her in some way, so they agree I am garbage simply to avoid incurring her wrath?

I've always been fascinated by the way humans behave, and this is no exception. Sometimes I wonder how many of these people might have actually turned out to be friends if they had talked to me instead of hearing her opinion first.

 

[drop bear]

The more you concern yourself with the opinions of others. The more you fall into that trap of judgement that your mother in law has fallen into.

 

[wingchun100]

I'm not concerned about their opinions about me. I'm curious about certain kinds of human behavior.

 

[granfire]

consider that the judgmental folks lead sad lives.
My late sister hate my guts 95% of the times, tolerated me the other 5%, only when she got something out of it...
Nothing I could do about it, short of jumping off a cliff.
After her death (slow and painful, cancer is a bass turd) I realized just how many different layers there were to her, most of them shot off to almost everybody. Her life phantasy of whooing the rich guy in town never really panned out, and when she did have a money making guy on hand, she didn't realize it, since she had made him what he was...just not happy in her skin....on some level I felt sorry for her...until I remember all the times she was outright nasty...more times than I can remember her being nice.....

Sorry you have to deal with this. The best revenge is living well though.

 

[wingchun100]

consider that the judgmental folks lead sad lives.
My late sister hate my guts 95% of the times, tolerated me the other 5%, only when she got something out of it...
Nothing I could do about it, short of jumping off a cliff.
After her death (slow and painful, cancer is a bass turd) I realized just how many different layers there were to her, most of them shot off to almost everybody. Her life phantasy of whooing the rich guy in town never really panned out, and when she did have a money making guy on hand, she didn't realize it, since she had made him what he was...just not happy in her skin....on some level I felt sorry for her...until I remember all the times she was outright nasty...more times than I can remember her being nice.....

Sorry you have to deal with this. The best revenge is living well though.

Thank you, and when you say "living with it," you don't know the half of it! Since my wife and I are a bit on the poor side, we are having to stay with them for now. (Staying with someone on my side of the family is not an option due to lack of room.) Fortunately for me I have a job where I can work lots of overtime, which kills not one, not two, but THREE birds with one stone: 1) I am not around her, 2) I am earning more money to get out of debt, which means 3) it accelerates our plan to get out of that house.

 

[granfire]

Bring her flowers once a week!

 

[wimwag]

My girlfriends mother is the same way. (We've been together 10 years and have two children.). She made sure years ago to tell every one of her relatives that I am no good and it took literally the last 6 years for everyone to actually get to know me and form their own opinions. I acted the same as i always have and even held my tongue when they mistreated me based on what she was saying. Now they always plan on staying with us rather than her and that really droves her nuts.

Give it time and be yourself. The uninformed will not get to have the pleasure of your company and that means peace in your house.

 

[wimwag]

I'm not concerned about their opinions about me. I'm curious about certain kinds of human behavior.

I think in some cases its kind of like a Qi thing...people put out so much negative energy it's like a dark cloud that casts a shadow on other people.

My girlfriend's mom gets everyone going at every holiday and you cab literally feel the negativity when you walk in the house.

 

[Brian King]

Sorry you are going thru this. I believe that everything happens for a reason and that sooner or later the reason becomes clear. The Russian Orthodox believe that every situation is a means for learning about the self. It is an interesting concept given some thought.

" I'm curious enough to wonder what others may think of this phenomenon. What do YOU think it is? Are the people around her too lazy to form their own opinion, and it's easier for them to just go by hers? Or are they afraid of her in some way, so they agree I am garbage simply to avoid incurring her wrath?"

Without knowing the people it is hard to say. You seem to think the people around her are lazy, and/or cowards. Perhaps they are, it certainly describes a lot of people. Birds of a feather flock together. yet, by perhaps giving the people around her the benefit of doubt could there be any other options for why they look down on you? Sometimes, and I am not saying it is the case in this case, people see the image that we reflect. Meaning if we are down on our selves, if our self talk is often negative -these images are what folks can pick up on. It could also be expectations, i.e. if we go in to a relationship expecting others to not like us it should be no surprise that they do not. Is it their fault or our fault? I do not think it is a fault. It is being human.

I would HIGHLY recommend finding a copy of Viktor Frankl's book "Man's Search for Meaning" (Which can be found free on the net here and there) Wiki has a pretty good entry - Man's Search for Meaning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In the book he describes observations and lessons he learned while surviving three different NAZI concentration camps. He was a professor of psychology prior to going into the camps and so has a rather unique perspective. One of the points that stuck with me from his book was that EVERTHING can be taken from you except for one thing. That thing is, how you chose to respond to any given situation. That alone is yours. Interesting perspective that I completely agree with.

Then there is another issue that you might want to consider. Grace and gratitude. You cannot change the way your mother in law treats you, but, you might be able to change the way she sees you by changing the way you see her. Take a long look at your wife, remember why you fell in love with her and why thru these difficult times you are sticking thru them. Who your wife is - is a large part due to her mother. Think about this on your way home from work. Add to the thought about where you and your family would be if you were not living with your Mother-in-law. How much more difficult would it be? Making rent and all the added money stressors. Think what it might be like for your mother in law. She did not think wow, some day my little girl is going to marry a guy and they are going to come live with me. Folks put a bit of their lives on hold helping family and often can become bitter about it. Thinking with gratitude that they are saving you money, putting a roof over your head, and most importantly raised the woman that you love, might this not make the living conditions a tiny bit more palatable? Giving your mother in law the grace to recognize that they are helping you and that it is not easy for them might help you to forgive her poisoning other relationships in your life. A job for you then is to live up to your expectations not down to theirs.

Good luck in your situation. It will get better eventually. Find the little pleasures and enjoy them. Life is always a challenge.

Regards
Brian King

 

[wingchun100]

I think in some cases its kind of like a Qi thing...people put out so much negative energy it's like a dark cloud that casts a shadow on other people.

My girlfriend's mom gets everyone going at every holiday and you cab literally feel the negativity when you walk in the house.

Yes indeed. Let me give you an example of one of her favorite things to do on a holiday: let's say I am in the living room watching TV, and she is in the next room with another relative. She will say a veiled insult about me that the relative won't understand, but I will. If I lose my cool and let it get the better of me, then to the relative who didn't understand the remark, it looks like I am flipping out for no reason. But over time, I have adjusted to this by realizing two things: 1) she isn't going to respect me no matter what I do, 2) she is delusional. How do I know this? Because there are other people around her (multiple felons, absentee dads) who she actually DOES show respect to...but then reserves all her contempt for me even though I obey the law and do whatever I can for all my kids.

I just keep taking breaths whenever it gets to me and remind myself that my wife and I have a plan to get out.

 

[Buka]

Appears to be a universal truth-

Men are from Mars, women are from Venus. But you're going to have at least one in-law from Uranus.

 

[wingchun100]

Sorry you are going thru this. I believe that everything happens for a reason and that sooner or later the reason becomes clear. The Russian Orthodox believe that every situation is a means for learning about the self. It is an interesting concept given some thought.



Without knowing the people it is hard to say. You seem to think the people around her are lazy, and/or cowards. Perhaps they are, it certainly describes a lot of people. Birds of a feather flock together. yet, by perhaps giving the people around her the benefit of doubt could there be any other options for why they look down on you? Sometimes, and I am not saying it is the case in this case, people see the image that we reflect. Meaning if we are down on our selves, if our self talk is often negative -these images are what folks can pick up on. It could also be expectations, i.e. if we go in to a relationship expecting others to not like us it should be no surprise that they do not. Is it their fault or our fault? I do not think it is a fault. It is being human.

I would HIGHLY recommend finding a copy of Viktor Frankl's book "Man's Search for Meaning" (Which can be found free on the net here and there) Wiki has a pretty good entry - Man's Search for Meaning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In the book he describes observations and lessons he learned while surviving three different NAZI concentration camps. He was a professor of psychology prior to going into the camps and so has a rather unique perspective. One of the points that stuck with me from his book was that EVERTHING can be taken from you except for one thing. That thing is, how you chose to respond to any given situation. That alone is yours. Interesting perspective that I completely agree with.

Then there is another issue that you might want to consider. Grace and gratitude. You cannot change the way your mother in law treats you, but, you might be able to change the way she sees you by changing the way you see her. Take a long look at your wife, remember why you fell in love with her and why thru these difficult times you are sticking thru them. Who your wife is - is a large part due to her mother. Think about this on your way home from work. Add to the thought about where you and your family would be if you were not living with your Mother-in-law. How much more difficult would it be? Making rent and all the added money stressors. Think what it might be like for your mother in law. She did not think wow, some day my little girl is going to marry a guy and they are going to come live with me. Folks put a bit of their lives on hold helping family and often can become bitter about it. Thinking with gratitude that they are saving you money, putting a roof over your head, and most importantly raised the woman that you love, might this not make the living conditions a tiny bit more palatable? Giving your mother in law the grace to recognize that they are helping you and that it is not easy for them might help you to forgive her poisoning other relationships in your life. A job for you then is to live up to your expectations not down to theirs.

Good luck in your situation. It will get better eventually. Find the little pleasures and enjoy them. Life is always a challenge.

Regards
Brian King

That would explain some things if it weren't for the fact that she also has two sons who, whenever they don't have girlfriends, are homeless unless she takes them back in. And unlike my wife and I, they don't contribute to ANY bills. We might not hand her money that is actually labelled "rent money," but we do give toward the cable bill, garbage collection (we live in the country so it is a service, not a given), and groceries. Yet not once does she make them suffer the brunt of her contempt. So my question to her would be: why not? LOL Is it simply because they are her children, and I'm not? It's okay to be a financial burden, as long as you are related by blood?

As for the part about me possibly being down on myself, I assure you I am not. I love my wife and kids. Despite three of them (I have four) not living with me, I do what I can to be as much a part of their lives as possible. Everything else I want to do with my life, I have put on hold so I can work 12-13 hour days. Some things can wait; overtime can't because it won't be here forever, so I give up what I WANT so I can do what I NEED to.

It really isn't as bad lately as it used to be, but that's only because these long hours make me around her less. LOL And the people she has poisoned against me don't come around so often. Luckily, despite being raised by her, my wife is HARDLY like her so I have at least one person on my side. Actually, I have her, my father-in-law AND my brothers-in-law. The only person who shows me any disrespect/contempt is her.

But even though I named her as the bully in this particular scenario, the point of the thread really was just about bullies in general. It is a bizarre phenomenon. As far as my mother-in-law goes, I don't think it matters to "earn" her respect. I don't think I should have to. I mean, I'm a good father and husband, and I work hard to do what I have to for my family. If she can't respect someone like that, but then can treat people who have messed up MUCH WORSE THAN ME like they walk on water, then that's just a sign of someone with...shall we say...odd values.

 

[donald1]

I wouldn't take that, I'd be assertive, bullies are just insecure people that can't handle there own emotions so they dish it out on others. It's a pity when you hear there "sad" back story(but I'm pretty sure everyone has dealt with some of that) they get no sympathy from me.

My way most likely isn't the best way, hopefully you will. Get a good idea of what should be done cause your not garbage

Best of luck

 

[wingchun100]

I wouldn't take that, I'd be assertive, bullies are just insecure people that can't handle there own emotions so they dish it out on others. It's a pity when you hear there "sad" back story(but I'm pretty sure everyone has dealt with some of that) they get no sympathy from me.

My way most likely isn't the best way, hopefully you will. Get a good idea of what should be done cause your not garbage

Best of luck

We definitely have a plan in mind. It will just take some time and saving up. In the meantime I just keep working long hours because it helps us move toward that plan faster AND keeps me away from her. While I have accepted the fact that she will never respect me, that doesn't mean I want to sit around the house and hear it...and if I hear much more, I know I'll explode. That would be bad for more reasons than I can count, although the first one I can think of is incurring the wrath of my father-in-law. We may be friends, but not so much that he'd appreciate me "disrespecting" his wife. (Of course, the fact that she always disrespects me would be irrelevant. LOL)

 

[wimwag]

I wouldn't spend too much time trying to understand her. She seems to be mentally ill. There's no understanding crazy. When people grow up under that cloud of fallout from the drama bomb they begin to think its a normal thing. At first they go along with it for survival, then it leeches the brain. Soon, whenever they are around that one person, they revert to their old ways..one advantage you have is that you've already seen their true colors. The other advantage is that your wife doesn't play along. Some of us aren't so lucky. Drama bombs get dropped because the drama queen desires her external world to match her internal world and lacks the character to change the internal world. It's a way of coping with herself.

One more thought: if this is how she treats people who are beneficial to her life, imagine how she will treat you if she thinks you are no longer beneficial.

My situation was like yours 5 years ago. We all moved in together to make ends meet. In the start, she paid her way, I paid my family's way. I wasn't too bothered with her behavior because I could walk away. Then my girlfriend gets pregnant and I don't have the freedom to just leave the house. She's bad enough for anyone's health that I'm not going to leave a pregnant girl alone with her. In the end, I was paying all the bills while being disrespected and decided enough was enough. After a blow out, where I told her to mind her own business, she tried siccing her husband on me, screamed that I was going to kill him when that failed, then spent the next 5 years (and counting) in a somber downward spiral because I distanced myself l and my children from her and will remove her from my home when she acts like a child. Sometimes she will drop the drama bomb on my household, but I respond quickly and have come to the point where I don't care how it affects my relationship because my children are not going to be around that witch enough to think that behavior is normal.

I'm not saying do what I do. I'm a one of a kind person...but it probably will get better for you. Have patience. Let her be your motivation to excel. (I went from minimum wage part time temp jobs to making $13.59 working over 60 hours a week with guaranteed roster at the temp service. Hell of a motivator.)

 

[wingchun100]

Yeah I am at $13.55 an hour now and I motivate myself to do at least 10-13 hours of overtime per week. When I get my own place, it will be a whole different scene because I will NOT tolerate being disrespected in a home that has my name on it. I mean, the whole point of being in my own place is to not have to deal with that kind of nonsense. Hell, this past weekend even my wife said to me, "I can't wait to have our own place." I asked why, and it turned out her mom had dropped what you call a "drama bomb" on her as well.

And you are absolutely right: it can't be tolerated for even one second around kids. Last summer I had an overnight job, and I woke up to get ready for it...only to find my wife and mother-in-law arguing about me. Naturally the in-law's stance was what a piece of crap I am. As I was putting my shoes on, my 5 year old son came up to me and said, "Daddy, do you hear all that yelling?" I told him I did, and he said, "That's what's making me sad."

And then of course she goes out into the world and promotes herself as world's greatest grandma. Right. More like world's greatest douche.

 

[jks9199]

Yes indeed. Let me give you an example of one of her favorite things to do on a holiday: let's say I am in the living room watching TV, and she is in the next room with another relative. She will say a veiled insult about me that the relative won't understand, but I will. If I lose my cool and let it get the better of me, then to the relative who didn't understand the remark, it looks like I am flipping out for no reason. But over time, I have adjusted to this by realizing two things: 1) she isn't going to respect me no matter what I do, 2) she is delusional. How do I know this? Because there are other people around her (multiple felons, absentee dads) who she actually DOES show respect to...but then reserves all her contempt for me even though I obey the law and do whatever I can for all my kids.

I just keep taking breaths whenever it gets to me and remind myself that my wife and I have a plan to get out.

This is not meant as an accusation or an insult -- but there is more to being a respectable or good person than merely obeying the law. There is more to being in a respectful relationship than being a nice guy or good person, too. In my experience, having been on the scene of more families in distress than I ever wanted to, there are always two sides to a story. And neither side is actually 100 percent objective, because each side reflects a point of view. Let me use your own example to show what I mean. You're in a different room, and you overhear your mother-in-law speaking to a 3rd party. You hear an insult; she feels that she was merely speaking, and perhaps even speaking in confidence. Imagine if your mother-in-law were to read this thread; would it improve her opinion of you, or would she be hurt by it? Yet you're "merely" venting in what you assume is a degree of privacy through anonymity.

Let me offer a suggestion to build on Brian King's very insightful post: decide today that you're going to start showing her the same respect you'd show your own mother. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that her treatment of you begins to change in response. The simple truth is that, no matter how well we think that we hide or feelings, they often leak through. In fact, they often scream through around everything else, because so much of human interaction takes place on non-verbal, nearly subconscious levels.

One more point... That last sentence of your post... I'm willing to bet that the attitude of "I'm just going to put up with this until I can scram" is coming through loud and clear to her. And it might well be perceived as rather ungrateful and disrespectful from her perspective. After all, she's opened her home to you and her daughter when you needed it...

 

[oftheherd1]

My sympathies. My sister-in-law violently disapproved of my marriage to my wife, and poisoned the thoughts of the rest of my wife's family before I met them. To this day, over 30 years later, I avoid any contact with her when I can. The only fortunate things is that my wife's family quickly grew to love and respect me once they met me. Especially her mother, who became like a second mother to me. My wife still loves her because she is her sister, but has no illusions about how she is.

I wouldn't call my sister-in-law a bully, at least in my case, because I never allowed myself to stop being me. Therefore, I never gave in to her. I tried not to be confrontational, unless I needed to defend myself or more importantly, my family. I never spoke loudly to her, which probably bothered her more than if I had. I just let her know how I felt, and what I was going to do or not do.

I certainly can't tell anyone else that will work for them, or that it is even the best way to react. There are many facets to people's relationships, driven by their own personalities and experiences, as well as perceptions, as jks9199 mentioned.

I wish both of you the opportunity to get out of those circumstances as quickly as possible, and into a better life.

 

[wingchun100]

This is not meant as an accusation or an insult -- but there is more to being a respectable or good person than merely obeying the law. There is more to being in a respectful relationship than being a nice guy or good person, too. In my experience, having been on the scene of more families in distress than I ever wanted to, there are always two sides to a story. And neither side is actually 100 percent objective, because each side reflects a point of view. Let me use your own example to show what I mean. You're in a different room, and you overhear your mother-in-law speaking to a 3rd party. You hear an insult; she feels that she was merely speaking, and perhaps even speaking in confidence. Imagine if your mother-in-law were to read this thread; would it improve her opinion of you, or would she be hurt by it? Yet you're "merely" venting in what you assume is a degree of privacy through anonymity.

Let me offer a suggestion to build on Brian King's very insightful post: decide today that you're going to start showing her the same respect you'd show your own mother. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that her treatment of you begins to change in response. The simple truth is that, no matter how well we think that we hide or feelings, they often leak through. In fact, they often scream through around everything else, because so much of human interaction takes place on non-verbal, nearly subconscious levels.

One more point... That last sentence of your post... I'm willing to bet that the attitude of "I'm just going to put up with this until I can scram" is coming through loud and clear to her. And it might well be perceived as rather ungrateful and disrespectful from her perspective. After all, she's opened her home to you and her daughter when you needed it...

You're putting the cart before the horse there. The disrespect started LONG before she let us move back in. As for whether or not she would be hurt by this thread, she wouldn't care. Why? Because it stands to reason if she thinks next to nothing of me, why would she care what my opinion is of her?

 

[wingchun100]

My sympathies. My sister-in-law violently disapproved of my marriage to my wife, and poisoned the thoughts of the rest of my wife's family before I met them. To this day, over 30 years later, I avoid any contact with her when I can. The only fortunate things is that my wife's family quickly grew to love and respect me once they met me. Especially her mother, who became like a second mother to me. My wife still loves her because she is her sister, but has no illusions about how she is.

I wouldn't call my sister-in-law a bully, at least in my case, because I never allowed myself to stop being me. Therefore, I never gave in to her. I tried not to be confrontational, unless I needed to defend myself or more importantly, my family. I never spoke loudly to her, which probably bothered her more than if I had. I just let her know how I felt, and what I was going to do or not do.

I certainly can't tell anyone else that will work for them, or that it is even the best way to react. There are many facets to people's relationships, driven by their own personalities and experiences, as well as perceptions, as jks9199 mentioned.

I wish both of you the opportunity to get out of those circumstances as quickly as possible, and into a better life.

Hmmm...you just got me thinking that maybe "bully" isn't exactly the right phrase. Either way, it is a crappy situation that I need to get out of.