Bouncer

[Golden_Nipple]

Next year I'm looking at a few jobs to tide me through the year, one of which is being a bouncer or something along those same lines. I'm a bit of 6 foot, very broad and quite strong, but my main question is what type of qualifications do bouncers need if any? I live in Aunstralia, and I realise most of you guys will be from the US or UK, but we usually model everything we do off one of you two, so I'm sure it will be along the same lines.

Also, what do the employers look for?

Just plain intimidating presence (being big and muscular with a decent "mean look")?

Or do they like actual martial art training?
If so, do they generally have leanings towards some martial arts over others?

Thanks guys
Kit

 

[Drac]

Next year I'm looking at a few jobs to tide me through the year, one of which is being a bouncer or something along those same lines. I'm a bit of 6 foot, very broad and quite strong, but my main question is what type of qualifications do bouncers need if any? I live in Aunstralia, and I realise most of you guys will be from the US or UK, but we usually model everything we do off one of you two, so I'm sure it will be along the same lines.

Also, what do the employers look for?

Just plain intimidating presence (being big and muscular with a decent "mean look")?

Or do they like actual martial art training?
If so, do they generally have leanings towards some martial arts over others?

Thanks guys
Kit

DO NOT mention martial arts training. unless questioned,.THat SCARES most employees..I've got MORE to addbut am pushed for time..Will check in later..

 

[Golden_Nipple]

Wow. That's an eye-opener. I'm keen to hear why.
Thanks for the response

Kit

 

[Shaderon]

My ex was a Doorman... he hated the word bouncer and said most do. He didn't say he had martial arts training because the employer was scared what he might do to the "punters".

What he said to have was confidence and authority - no point in looking like a meek mouse, the ability to remain detatched from the situations around if they are nothing to do with you, physical prescence, a cool head, a knowledge of self defence and the willingness to get stuck in if neccessary, even if you get locked outside the door with the thugs, which happens. Oh and the most important, loyalty to the boss, to do whatever you are told, allowing for a touch of common sense of course. You have to be able to read situations, see what's going to happen before it happens.

Some bosses don't care about minor criminal records as long as they aren't for GBH or something similar, but a clean record is a major bonus, as is a clean psychological doctors record.

Just one thing, know what you are getting into. My ex had all his teeth kicked out one night from stopping the wrong person coming in the club, his "gang" waited for him and jumped him on his way home, he put up a fight but there were too many, they held him down and kicked his teeth out.

 

[Golden_Nipple]

Mmmm... I was thinking along those lines in terms of why you DONT tell them you have MA training. Sweet, thanks for that. Do you think 6 foot would be too short to have a decent "physical prescence"? As I said, I'm rather broad and am in the process of stacking on some extra muscle to amplify that, but I'm thinking that mightn't quite cut it due to the height...

Oh, and I realise it's not the safest job in the world but I think I was to try my hand at it.

 

[Shaderon]

I have seen women pull it off so 6 foot is fine. Physical prescence isn't about height although it helps, it's about confidence, a touch of arrogance and an ownership of the situation no matter what it is. Also it can be natural, something you can't shake off or create.

 

[theletch1]

I have seen women pull it off so 6 foot is fine. Physical prescence isn't about height although it helps, it's about confidence, a touch of arrogance and an ownership of the situation no matter what it is. Also it can be natural, something you can't shake off or create.

Agreed. And I'd add that confidence and cockyness are two different things. Cocky will get you challenged in a heartbeat just to see if the other party can take the challenge. Confidence is simply a surety that you can (or at least everyone else thinks you can) handle most anything. I've never done the doormans' job. I just don't care to hang out in the places that have doormen. It's not an easy job, not the safest of jobs and the potential legal ramifications if the boss doesn't back you just always seemed a bit too much.

As for the martial arts needing to be kept quiet, well, ever had a non-MA friend ask a really stupid question about your training? Folks that don't train have some really odd ideas about what you can and can't do with MA training. Too many ninja movies in the 80s I suppose. Regardless, good luck with any endeavor you choose.

 

[HKphooey]

Being a good "bouncer" is all about teamwork. I have seen fellow 6'+, 245 lbs+ bouncer get their *** handed to them on a platter. I was never big, just tall. You need to use your brain more than your brawn. It can be a very fun side job.

 

[Golden_Nipple]

Oh yeah, most definately. I never thought that being big was going to make me a GOOD bouncer, just a more employable one. I know that skill and a decent head on your shoulders is going to give you a much bigger advantage than size ever could in the job.

Have you found that it's relatively easy to find work?

And theletch, good note about the difference between confidence and cocky. Some think it's a fine line between the two, I find that they're completely different. If you're confident, you know you're capable of handling the situation, if you're cocky, you want to tell people about how you can handle the situation.

Thanks guys ^_^

 

[Adept]

but my main question is what type of qualifications do bouncers need if any? I live in Aunstralia

I'm currently working as a bouncer in Victoria (Gippsland, to be more specific) in Australia.

You will need a level two security operations certificate, which may (I'm not certain on this) need to be upgraded at some stage to a level three.

http://www.ista.com.au/prs20103-crowdcontroller.asp

This is the course I did, and at the time it cost about $600 and went for two weeks, in Melbourne.

You will then need to apply for a Crowd Controllers licence, which will cost another $300 - $400. They will help organise this for you at ISTA during the course.

Also, what do the employers look for?

Experience is always a plus.

If you are totally green, simply try to be confident and intelligent. You don't want to seem cocky, or nervous, or arrogant.

The boss will want you to be dealing with everything from mopping the floor and picking up glasses, to dealing with absolute shitstorm brawls with barstools flying, to talking down aggressive and intoxicated patrons, and everything in between.

Just plain intimidating presence (being big and muscular with a decent "mean look")?

It helps, but some of the best blokes I've worked with have been quite small and un-assuming. It's more about how you project yourself, and how you interact with the patrons than your size.

Or do they like actual martial art training?
If so, do they generally have leanings towards some martial arts over others?

Depends. The boss I currently work with appreciates that nearly every bouncer currently working for him has an extensive martial arts background, and he's seen us using it so he knows that it A) works for us and B) is unlikely to result in injuring the patrons unless there really is no other option.

As a rule, don't try to talk to much about your martial arts. If he asks why you'd like to be a bouncer, then good reasons are: The lifestyle, the atmosphere, extra cash for weekend work, etc. This is a good time to mention that you have done a bit of martial arts, and maybe that some of the guys you train with work as bouncers and seem to enjoy it. Don't set out to let the boss know you are a black belt, but if the opportunity to mention it comes up you certainly can. Just don't brag about it!

In general, it's very hard to determine how good someone will be without giving them a chance. If an employer is looking for workers, he will probably give you a trial night or two to see how you go. It's important during this trial period to not screw up too badly. A bit of nerves and unfamiliarity with tolerances (how drunk is too drunk? How aggressive is too aggressive?) is to be expected, but being afraid to back up the other bouncers in a fight, losing your temper and belting someone, dodging work or spending all night trying to pick up girls are big no-no's.

Also, use the term 'crowd controller' or 'crowdie' instead of bouncer when talking about the job to other workers or potential employers. While bouncer is still the common parlance, people prefer to hear 'crowdie' than 'bouncer'.

 

[Shaderon]

Adept, I've heard the word "Bouncer" is looked on badly, but what is it about that word? Is it just the stigma?

 

[Adept]

Adept, I've heard the word "Bouncer" is looked on badly, but what is it about that word? Is it just the stigma?

Well, whenever someone tells a story about getting beaten up, or intimidated or thrown out of somewhere, it's always the 'bouncers' that do it.

A 'crowd controller' doesn't 'bounce' people or beat them up. He controls the crowd. It's the same people doing the same job, but the different words conjure different images.

 

[Drac]

Adept, I've heard the word "Bouncer" is looked on badly, but what is it about that word? Is it just the stigma?

Yep..The one club I worked for didn't like the image the word bouncer conotated so they were renamed "Floorwalkers"..

 

[Drac]

Wow. That's an eye-opener. I'm keen to hear why.
Thanks for the response

Kit

Blame Hollywood who focused on the physical skills..Guys punching out a dozen other guys..High kicks, spinning back kicks etc..etc..No club owner wants to go to court because his martial arts trained bouncer broke some customers face..If you do wind up in court God forbid you go before a judge that has a hatred for all MA's and YOU wind up looking like the bad guy...

 

[Bobby135]

I am a bouncer in the Boston area of Massachusetts. I am short (5'6") and stalky. I have been a bouncer for almost 2 years at a fairly popular bar in Boston. The 2 biggest skills that I have learned over the years are the ability to difuse a situation before it happens and the ability to let things roll off of you. You will get yelled at and called everything in the book. That is the nature of the business, and if you can't take being called an ******* then you shouldn't be there.

I have various experience in Martial Arts and I have found that most situations can be difused without the use of force, and simply by talking to a friend of the person who is being beligerent.

Knowing how to deal with people is the best thing that you can do, and be nice and dont confront every situation in an aggressive manner. Granted situations do come across when force is necessary, and you will have to drag people out of your bar. My suggestion is to use the force and intimidation factor as a last resort.

Bobby

 

[Drac]

I am a bouncer in the Boston area of Massachusetts. I am short (5'6") and stalky. I have been a bouncer for almost 2 years at a fairly popular bar in Boston. The 2 biggest skills that I have learned over the years are the ability to difuse a situation before it happens and the ability to let things roll off of you. You will get yelled at and called everything in the book. That is the nature of the business, and if you can't take being called an a**hole then you shouldn't be there.

I couldn't have said it better myself...

 

[Shaderon]

Knowing how to deal with people is the best thing that you can do, and be nice and dont confront every situation in an aggressive manner. Granted situations do come across when force is necessary, and you will have to drag people out of your bar. My suggestion is to use the force and intimidation factor as a last resort.

Bobby

Sounds familiar... this crops up in the self defence thread often
It's a good tip for life as well as work.

 

[Bigshadow]

I have toyed with the idea of getting a side gig of doorman or asset protection, just to try it out and see if I like it.

Sounds as though it could be exciting. But somehow I think it is probably long periods of boredom and short moments of excitement.

 

[kidswarrior]

My ex was a Doorman... he hated the word bouncer and said most do. He didn't say he had martial arts training because the employer was scared what he might do to the "punters".

What he said to have was confidence and authority - no point in looking like a meek mouse, the ability to remain detatched from the situations around if they are nothing to do with you, physical prescence, a cool head, a knowledge of self defence and the willingness to get stuck in if neccessary, even if you get locked outside the door with the thugs, which happens. Oh and the most important, loyalty to the boss, to do whatever you are told, allowing for a touch of common sense of course. You have to be able to read situations, see what's going to happen before it happens.

Some bosses don't care about minor criminal records as long as they aren't for GBH or something similar, but a clean record is a major bonus, as is a clean psychological doctors record.

Just one thing, know what you are getting into. My ex had all his teeth kicked out one night from stopping the wrong person coming in the club, his "gang" waited for him and jumped him on his way home, he put up a fight but there were too many, they held him down and kicked his teeth out.

Sobering story, Shaderon, thanks for bringing it to light.

 

[kidswarrior]

Agreed. And I'd add that confidence and cockyness are two different things. Cocky will get you challenged in a heartbeat just to see if the other party can take the challenge. Confidence is simply a surety that you can (or at least everyone else thinks you can) handle most anything. I've never done the doormans' job. I just don't care to hang out in the places that have doormen. It's not an easy job, not the safest of jobs and the potential legal ramifications if the boss doesn't back you just always seemed a bit too much.

As for the martial arts needing to be kept quiet, well, ever had a non-MA friend ask a really stupid question about your training? Folks that don't train have some really odd ideas about what you can and can't do with MA training. Too many ninja movies in the 80s I suppose. Regardless, good luck with any endeavor you choose.

This really sums it up nicely: confident, not cocky; outsiders have no clue what MA really means; and legal implications can be a nightmare--even if you're 'right'.