Weight Training for a purpose? I.e. Police Officer, Doorman?

[Corporal Hicks]

Recently I've been coming to the terms that my training has nothing do to with sparring or traditional MA, even though I do incorporate some of these aspects into my own training. Recently my training has been towards the focus of that suiting a Police Officer or Doorman therefore as you guessed I have no need to train as though I'm scoring points and can utlize every weapon in my arsonal (not saying that they dont!!!), however one idea is that you may need to look the part.
Giving an example being that you would expect a doorman or bouncer whatever you like to call them, to give out the appearance of being 'hard' or 'capable'.

Since Im aiming towards being a police officer I'm not sure what kind of appearence that I should be given out, I'm thinking that I should gain some strength for dealing with those pesky criminals when it turns to arrests, whilst at the same time building some serious muscle!
Would you guys recommend muscle building? That is right isnt it? To build raw strength is to build raw muscle and that can be done by supersets and high intensity training, is that correct?

While I'm on the point, will building raw muscle effect my technique or speed, the common myth being more body mass you have the slower you are, I mean I'm not the thickest set of people and I dont think that no matter how much mass I build its not going to have an Arnold effect or really effect my speed, instead I'm going for the Bruce Lee look, but kind of thicker!

Is this the right attitude to have for a police officer? Should I be trying to look the part? Im a medium build anyway and am quite toned but I think maybe showing a little more 'mass' will add to the look? What do you guys think?

What kind of weight training should I be undertaking? for the idea of a police officer? If there are officers on here I would like to hear from you!
Kind Regards
C.H

 

[searcher]

You have a very long post, so I will answer some and try to work from there.

It is always a good idea to build strength and muscle at the same time. While doing this you will need to make sure to stretch your muscles to prevent them from tightening up, this will be what causes you to lose speed. Remember that strength and speed are related to each other. Overall appearance does help in the "intimidation factor." Strength will help in the control of those you will be arresting. To gain size and strength you will need a good training split and a dietary that supports what you are trying to get. Work your forearms and upper body a little bit extra, since that is what most people on the street notice first. This will also help with cuffing techniques.

Thsi may sound funny to most people, but if you want to get some good strength for arresting, go buy a milk cow and milk it twice a day. You will look like Popeye in no time.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

having size can be intimidating, but the thing you need to work on more than building muscle mass, is building confidence.
unless you are trying to arrest a truly giant person by yourself or escorting that same person to the door, it doesnt take all that much strength. you can increase your strength level without putting on too much mass.
a person showing confidence in a stressful situation is much more intimidating in my eyes. the ability to take control mentally will assist you in taking control physically.
work on this.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

Ah I was under the impression that building mass, builds strength? As that is the only way to gain strength? As more strength comes from more mass? As I just said, damn...

Yeah I agree with building confidence first but how would you do that? I'm in no position to do so, so whilst I cannot do that, I could work on other areas. Point taken though!

Regards

 

[chinto01]

Being big and muscular does not equal strength and confidence. My suggestion is to set some goals of what you want and then see a personal trainer at a gym to help you achive those goals. Being a former doorman myself I have seen some of the biggest bouncers get whooped up on by some of the smallest guys. If I may offer one more bit of advice my best friends on the job was my eyes,ears, and mouth. Listen to what people have to say before you take action. Physical confrontations can usually be worked out between people by just listening. After all it will be your verbal response to the person that may cause the fight.

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Ah I was under the impression that building mass, builds strength? As that is the only way to gain strength? As more strength comes from more mass? As I just said, damn...

Yeah I agree with building confidence first but how would you do that? I'm in no position to do so, so whilst I cannot do that, I could work on other areas. Point taken though!

Regards

the easiest way to build confidence is by putting yourself in situations that you are less than comfortable with.....and learning how to deal with them. afraid of death..dig graves.....uncomfortable around drunk people, be a bouncer.....
there will always be an element of fear.....you will never be completely unafraid.
fear is healthy.....it helps you to stay aware.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Interesting phenom, locally. Local beach community only hires them large. The cops exit the car for a traffic stop, 6 foot/6 inches & 280 pounds, and there is instant respect. The next burg over hires them small (all the guys too little to get on at the beach). They step out of the car at a traffic stop, and HAVE to have their hand on their weapon to call visual attention to the great legal equalizer between they and you.

Wanna be a cop? Get big.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Adept]

Ah I was under the impression that building mass, builds strength? As that is the only way to gain strength? As more strength comes from more mass? As I just said, damn...

Well, you've got two types of strength, really. You've got functional strength, and raw strength. Raw strength is simply the potential energy in your muscles. Bigger muscles mean more raw strength. Then you've got functional strength which, while dependant on muscle size as well, is also dependant on technique. Even if the other bloke has bigger muscles, you can still hit harder if you know what you are doing.

Make sure when you are bulking out that you keep working on your flexibility, or you will lose some of it and become slower as a result.

Yeah I agree with building confidence first but how would you do that? I'm in no position to do so, so whilst I cannot do that, I could work on other areas. Point taken though!

Start hanging out it bars, and take up boxing.

In all seriousness, a full contact sport like boxing strips the mystery and fear away from getting hit during a fight. You know what it feels like to get hit because it's happened hundreds of times before. So you aren't unduly afraid any more. If you live in a city, there should be a boxing gym somwhere within driving difference.

Hanging out in bars lets you get used to drunken behaviour, lets you watch how the staff work and how they handle unruly customers, etc. I don't know if you are old enough though.

 

[swiftpete]

When i was in Australia I saw some massive policemen and they commanded a lot more instant respect when talking to people than smaller ones, I witnessed that when i watched them at work with drunk people on the streets.

I'm just wondering why it was that you wanted to be a doorman? I've never been one myself but i think generally when I see a small doorman, as in under about 15 stone/6 foot I personally think they are probably pretty handy in a fight, maybe more so than a typical big bruiser type, depending on the look in their eyes of course!
But I would have thought there are a lot of people out there that see a smaller doorman and think "yeah, I'd like to take him out, he's not that big and it'd be a good way of showing off."
There are a lot of idiots out there and a lot of knives, I wouldn't want one or a broken bottle in the back of my neck personally.
But each to their own, not trying to disrespect anyone or anyones choice of employment, just interested in what draws you to that job.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

Well, you've got two types of strength, really. You've got functional strength, and raw strength. Raw strength is simply the potential energy in your muscles. Bigger muscles mean more raw strength. Then you've got functional strength which, while dependant on muscle size as well, is also dependant on technique. Even if the other bloke has bigger muscles, you can still hit harder if you know what you are doing.

Make sure when you are bulking out that you keep working on your flexibility, or you will lose some of it and become slower as a result.

Start hanging out it bars, and take up boxing.

In all seriousness, a full contact sport like boxing strips the mystery and fear away from getting hit during a fight. You know what it feels like to get hit because it's happened hundreds of times before. So you aren't unduly afraid any more. If you live in a city, there should be a boxing gym somwhere within driving difference.

Hanging out in bars lets you get used to drunken behaviour, lets you watch how the staff work and how they handle unruly customers, etc. I don't know if you are old enough though.

Yep old enough since I'm back here in the UK!

Well, boxing is something I will definately take up as a result!

Well so if you dont train the new muscle that you have built then you are techinically losing some of your techinque? Or is that incorrect, will I just be building mass (with stretching) but maintaining the same techinique level?

Therefore I should continue technique training and maximise the potential of the new muscle? So in effect what I'm trying to say after all this crap I wrote above is that,
will training new muscle effect my technique?
Regards

 

[swiftpete]

I was hoping you'd answer my question as well! I'm genuinely interested.

 

[Tgace]

Interesting phenom, locally. Local beach community only hires them large. The cops exit the car for a traffic stop, 6 foot/6 inches & 280 pounds, and there is instant respect. The next burg over hires them small (all the guys too little to get on at the beach). They step out of the car at a traffic stop, and HAVE to have their hand on their weapon to call visual attention to the great legal equalizer between they and you.

Wanna be a cop? Get big.

Regards,

Dave

If the big cop isnt approaching a car stop with his hand on his weapon because he thinks his size will carry him through hes a fool. Its whats between your ears thats most important. Ive seen many BIG cops go into bad situations because they had overinflated estimations of their capabilities.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

If the big cop isnt approaching a car stop with his hand on his weapon because he thinks his size will carry him through hes a fool. Its whats between your ears thats most important. Ive seen many BIG cops go into bad situations because they had overinflated estimations of their capabilities.

I've also seen many small ones moved to force escalation due to the inability to induce respect through command presence. If I have a beast telling me to remain in the car when I'm feeling uppity & argumentative, I'm more likely to comply than if that same command comes from some little putz in orthopedic shoes and glasses, all of five-foot nothing with a whiny, nasally voice. True, he be da law. Also true; he be a potatuh.

I just think it's human nature to defer more to a line-backer sized blue, than to a wee widdoh thang.

That being said, I've consistently been the leanest guy on my bouncing teams. And generally, the better trained and mrer effective.

Regards,

D

 

[Tgace]

Theres more to Command presence than size. One of the most productive officers on my dept. is "Small" height wise, but stronger in the weight room than I am. (and Im on the average to tall end of the scale). While the "average" person may be more intimidated by a large person, in my experience many (if not most) of the real ******** out there will be trouble regardless of the officers size.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

When i was in Australia I saw some massive policemen and they commanded a lot more instant respect when talking to people than smaller ones, I witnessed that when i watched them at work with drunk people on the streets.

I'm just wondering why it was that you wanted to be a doorman? I've never been one myself but i think generally when I see a small doorman, as in under about 15 stone/6 foot I personally think they are probably pretty handy in a fight, maybe more so than a typical big bruiser type, depending on the look in their eyes of course!
But I would have thought there are a lot of people out there that see a smaller doorman and think "yeah, I'd like to take him out, he's not that big and it'd be a good way of showing off."
There are a lot of idiots out there and a lot of knives, I wouldn't want one or a broken bottle in the back of my neck personally.
But each to their own, not trying to disrespect anyone or anyones choice of employment, just interested in what draws you to that job.

Lol, yeah sorry I was just getting to quoting your post but my internet has been playing up, time to get broadband.

Nope, not going to be a doorman, though was considering it, I was looking to be a police officer, reasons being, well its a long story...
As a child I used to be intimidated by others not directly most of the time but on occasions, bullies, street thugs, drunks, those who would deem themselves to exercise their control over others that they believed they have, to intimidate them and make them fear for their safety. I didnt, and still dont like the idea of having to walk down the street and end up fighting or being intimidated by some local punk who's got a reputation for tipping paint over cars and setting them alight as well as mugging, abusing and insulting passer bys, being a police officer gives me a chance to do something about that, I like the idea of the adrenaline all night long (or not as some times maybe) and a job that is hardly mudane but can throw something new at you everytime, I also like the pay standards over here.

As for the smaller doorman, I would be more scared of the shorter ones, they seem to be harder, no let me re-phrase that, alot of them are harder than the taller ones, since they have to be, like my tkd instructor!!!

 

[redfang]

I'm still about three weeks from being on the street as an LEO, but having spent the last six months in our city's academy and accompanying officers in the field here are a few observations. Yes, size can intimidate. Size can also tempt some into trying that officer for the perceived credibility that fighting the big cop can bring. Small cops and really big cops seem to get tested more. Command presence had very little to do with size. It has everything to do with showing confidence, not showing any fear, giving good verbal commands, etc. really, just seeming like you know what's up and you are in charge. Going with that, you have to be able to talk to people in a relaxed, non-confrontational manner a lot of the time, or you create problems for yourself. Be a problem solver. For those times that force is necessary I've been trained with an equal amount of cardio and weight training. Muscle endurance has been emphasized as much as raw muscle. We practice running a few minutes, while talking on the radio, and then having to arrest our subject. Technique is very important. I'm about 5'10 and 200 lbs. I can usually take bigger opponents (in the mat room and not yet on the street) just because I outlast them with better cardio or have better technique.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

So strength is built using maximal or 80% maximal weight?

I.e. I should be doing 3 sets of 1-5 Repetitions on every muscle I want to build?

Or is strength built through a different set of repetitions? and what about the speed?

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

So strength is built using maximal or 80% maximal weight?

I.e. I should be doing 3 sets of 1-5 Repetitions on every muscle I want to build?

Or is strength built through a different set of repetitions? and what about the speed?

ASCM website should have some clips on guidelines. If not, try the CSCS cert site...can't currently remember their org name, but if you look up "Certified Strength & Conditioning Specialist" you can find it online. Lots of good archived articles.

Regards,

D.

 

[Adept]

So strength is built using maximal or 80% maximal weight?

I.e. I should be doing 3 sets of 1-5 Repetitions on every muscle I want to build?

Or is strength built through a different set of repetitions? and what about the speed?

For building mass, what I do is find my ten rep figure. Which is the maximum weight I can lift in ten good reps with good form. That is, by the time I finish the last rep, I feel pretty much knackered. For example, say 150 pounds.

The work out would follow a pattern like this:

Warm up - 10 reps at 100, then 10 at 125

One set of 8 at 150

One set of 6 at 170

And finally one set of 4 at 190

So you warm up with two sets at less than your weight, then do decreasing numbers with increasing weight. I generally rest for two minutes between sets, although some people recommend more, and others recommend less.

You retain speed through working on flexibility (both static and dynamic stretching) and through plyometric exercises (push ups with claps, that kind of thing).

 

[Corporal Hicks]

Thanks adept, would that be the same for building strength though?
Say for example I did 3 sets of 1-5 reps on a wieght that was 80% of my maximum with say a 2/3 minute rest whats that going to build? or is it just going to knacker me out?

Regards