Blackbelt clubs, masters clubs; thoughts?
- Thread starter Daniel Sullivan
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Thanks for the input. One of the things that I had seen at a few schools was that signing up for, or signing your kid up for, the blackbelt club meant that all testing fees were waived except the blackbelt test. Given that testing fees can really add up, if it is a one time fee that is significantly less than the sum of the testing fees, then I see it as a good thing.
Frequently, I've seen that such 'clubs' are invitation only; the student must be training hard, sometimes be of at least orange belt, and sometimes be receiving an A grade on all tests they've taken up to that point. There's usually a special uniform and/or patch associated.
I've seen some schools with a 'masters club' that has a special uniform, but I don't know what being in the masters club entails, and the schools I've seen that have it have students of colored belt ranks in it.
I posted the thread because as staff at the dojang I train in (and as one who'd like to own a school), I am looking for ways to enhance the experience of the students and trying to get an idea of what some of these things other schools offer actually are.
My school doesn't have any of these, so if you are familiar with such programs, I'd like to know what they are. If you view them negatively, then thats fine, but just saying that they're elitist or a way to make money doesn't tell me much about the program. On average, what sort of finiancial commitment, if any, is required of the customer? Or is there an average?
I don't personally see a great need to have such programs, but since I don't know too much about them, and since a lot of our competitors seem to have them, I don't want to dismiss them out of hand.
And even if we don't have them, knowing what they are would be nice, particularly if a customer asks if we have such a thing; "my little Johnny was in the black belt club at the old school and now that we're in the area, we'd like to sign him up here and he'd like to be in your blackbelt club. Do you have one?" I'd like to say something other than, 'what's a blackbelt club?' or 'I've heard of those but don't know whats involved', thus the research.
Once again, I do appreciate the input
Daniel
Frequently, I've seen that such 'clubs' are invitation only; the student must be training hard, sometimes be of at least orange belt, and sometimes be receiving an A grade on all tests they've taken up to that point. There's usually a special uniform and/or patch associated.
I've seen some schools with a 'masters club' that has a special uniform, but I don't know what being in the masters club entails, and the schools I've seen that have it have students of colored belt ranks in it.
I posted the thread because as staff at the dojang I train in (and as one who'd like to own a school), I am looking for ways to enhance the experience of the students and trying to get an idea of what some of these things other schools offer actually are.
My school doesn't have any of these, so if you are familiar with such programs, I'd like to know what they are. If you view them negatively, then thats fine, but just saying that they're elitist or a way to make money doesn't tell me much about the program. On average, what sort of finiancial commitment, if any, is required of the customer? Or is there an average?
I don't personally see a great need to have such programs, but since I don't know too much about them, and since a lot of our competitors seem to have them, I don't want to dismiss them out of hand.
And even if we don't have them, knowing what they are would be nice, particularly if a customer asks if we have such a thing; "my little Johnny was in the black belt club at the old school and now that we're in the area, we'd like to sign him up here and he'd like to be in your blackbelt club. Do you have one?" I'd like to say something other than, 'what's a blackbelt club?' or 'I've heard of those but don't know whats involved', thus the research.
Once again, I do appreciate the input
Daniel
First never having been a member of such a thing it is hard for me to know exactly what they involve. My personal thought is that it makes those in such organizations feel like they are special in some way and better than those who do not belong. It seems to be just another way of saying look at me.
If by belonging to such a group you pay less dues, pay less or nothing for testing, get better discounts on tournaments/seminars, etc. there might be some benefit for belonging to them but then would that not be an insult to those that had not reached the required rank.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
if it gives a value for the cost, it is a good thing.
like additional training
free belt tests
free private lessons
etc
like additional training
free belt tests
free private lessons
etc
Shuto
Purple Belt
I don't see the problems with our BB club that others have rasied. People in the club work side by side with people who don't. All are treated equal by fellow students and instructors alike. I sense no discrimination or elitism.
Our BB club includes the fee for the BB test. Those not in the club pay the fee at test time. No discrimination there.
Our BB club includes sparring gear. Non BB club students pay seperately for their gear. Again, no discrimination.
Our BB club includes free quarterly seminars. These seminars are not part of the regular curriculum and ususally involve some kind of physical fitness training but I've also seen a class playing with Glo-Chucks and one on the legal ramifications around self-defense situation. Non emember can still attend but they pay a fee. Also, BB club members have the first opportunity to sign up before the class is opened up to the others.
The BB members sign a long-term contract for a guaranteed monthly fee. Others pay a monthly fee whose price can increase whenever...
I don't see the issue with this except perhaps the contract. But since those who do not want to commit long term can still participate in everything what's the big deal?
Our BB club includes the fee for the BB test. Those not in the club pay the fee at test time. No discrimination there.
Our BB club includes sparring gear. Non BB club students pay seperately for their gear. Again, no discrimination.
Our BB club includes free quarterly seminars. These seminars are not part of the regular curriculum and ususally involve some kind of physical fitness training but I've also seen a class playing with Glo-Chucks and one on the legal ramifications around self-defense situation. Non emember can still attend but they pay a fee. Also, BB club members have the first opportunity to sign up before the class is opened up to the others.
The BB members sign a long-term contract for a guaranteed monthly fee. Others pay a monthly fee whose price can increase whenever...
I don't see the issue with this except perhaps the contract. But since those who do not want to commit long term can still participate in everything what's the big deal?
Black belt clubs are fine if they motivate people to keep coming. Of course they are elite-they are something you should aspire to.
There is no need for "Master's clubs". We have Masters Associations. Clubs are for black belts and academic achievers.
There is no need for "Master's clubs". We have Masters Associations. Clubs are for black belts and academic achievers.
We started a Blackbelt club which is for the students that are making the committment to not only learn the standard curriculum, but want to go above and beyond. These are the students that attend all of their normal classes and still want more. I started this program last year and so far it has worked well for us. Its not pushed hard in the school and its not just to make extra revenue. Its simply an extra place that the highly committed students can go to learn even more.
That's pretty much my theory too. I have (once) seen a program such as the one Shuto refers to - but for the most part, such clubs are an organized effort to part students from an ever-increasing amount of money. Anyone who shows up will get as much as I can give them.
Windsinger
Green Belt
The dojang I train at has a BBC. The BBC is a three year program, the regular setup is a one year. The real difference between the two is how much you can save on the three year program. With the BBC, you pay less per month, you get a 10% discount on any taining gear (boards, new doboks, etc) that you purchase, and there are no training fees. There's no guarantee you'll actually have your black belt at the end of the three years (that's dependant on how diligent you are in your training, pbviously), but it does set a goal for you. Other than those discounts, the only way you could tell who is in the BBC and who isn't is the BBC members have access to two extra classes - training/conditioning and stretching/flexibility (and even then, it's IF they choose to attend those). Other than me and my son, I couldn't tell you who is and who isn't a BBC member at my school.
Personally, I quite like the way our Sabum Nym has the program setup.
Personally, I quite like the way our Sabum Nym has the program setup.
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If she's getting her money's worth in terms of quality training, and if the practices aren't unreasonable, is there a particular reason why she should leave?
Just because a particular school forbids students from buying elsewhere, does not equate to their being a bad school. Many schools implement this policy to prevent their students from going to a sporting goods chain, and buying a Century brand paper-thin uniform that will either rip in a short time, or be tossed into the garbage, because of the awful discomfort.
Other times, some will insist that you buy only USA-NKF certified sparring pads, since they don't want you to buy junk that you can't use in competition. Or, maybe they don't want students who don't know any better, buying those cheap pads that have very little padding on them. Getting hit by someone's fist while they're wearing such a glove hurts just as much as if they hit you bare-knuckled.
Before condemning a school for their practices, it's usually better to look at why they do such things. Are they charging a reasonable price, and giving quality merchandise? In those cases, that's a perfectly good answer.
On the other hand, do they only sell utter garbage at exorbitant prices, and insist that their students use such garbage? If so, than that's a rotten situation.
I said leave because using the word expensive indicated that they weren't happy lol! the tone of the post was such that they didn't sound content there.
My reasoning was that if they were happy there the kit wouldn't be 'expensive' for them, they would have said it was good value even if they had to save up for the kit. Tbh they probably wouldn't have posted if they were happy with the school!
My reasoning was that if they were happy there the kit wouldn't be 'expensive' for them, they would have said it was good value even if they had to save up for the kit. Tbh they probably wouldn't have posted if they were happy with the school!
Look if people like it and they believe the training is worth that extra fee than God bless the school for making some money. My only problem is every single student should recieve the same training either way. This has always been my hang up and those that say I will teach you the death touch for blank amount of cash.
kidswarrior
Senior Master
Hey, I'll teach the secret, no-touch death touch for a secret pile...ahem, small amount of cash.
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How do you know for certain, though? There is nothing in the post that says "I'm unhappy." All the poster did was simply answer what her black belt club entailed, nothing more.
Martial arts is expensive for me. I have to drive a good number of miles to get to my dojo.
If I want to do kobudo training, I have to be enrolled in the advanced program, which costs 20 dollars / month more. The high quality equipment that I end up buying costs a good bit of money. A good set of weapons for kobudo can cost hundreds of dollars. If I want to do iaido training, I need to get a decent iaito or katana, and that can cost even more. My, my... That gets expensive!
From those statement above, though, can you assume that I'm unhappy with my school? Without knowing for sure, how can you tell someone to simply leave their school?
You might be correct. Perhaps she isn't happy, but until you're certain, why light flames of discontent if there aren't any, just because someone mentioned how much something costs?
You can't base someone's happiness on how much (or how little) they're paying. I can talk about how expensive the price of ribeye steaks is getting, yet that doesn't mean that I'm unhappy with eating ribeye steaks.
Darth F.Takeda
Blue Belt
In our art, the "Black belt Club" is those who made it to Shodan and above. (Shodan takes 4 1/2 to 6 years with us).
I hate the idea of balck belt clubs, its part of the "You'll get a BB in 2 years thing, that makes me sick and gives people the idea that they are street legal for combat.
There is an informal group in our school that I consider Elite, but we know who we are and never rubb it in others face, we just let the rest know that to be invited to one of our groups private practices is our way of saying you do and have more going on than the average person and we want you in our group to help us take it to a higher and harder level.
I hate the idea of balck belt clubs, its part of the "You'll get a BB in 2 years thing, that makes me sick and gives people the idea that they are street legal for combat.
There is an informal group in our school that I consider Elite, but we know who we are and never rubb it in others face, we just let the rest know that to be invited to one of our groups private practices is our way of saying you do and have more going on than the average person and we want you in our group to help us take it to a higher and harder level.
How do you know for certain, though? There is nothing in the post that says "I'm unhappy." All the poster did was simply answer what her black belt club entailed, nothing more.
Martial arts is expensive for me. I have to drive a good number of miles to get to my dojo.
If I want to do kobudo training, I have to be enrolled in the advanced program, which costs 20 dollars / month more. The high quality equipment that I end up buying costs a good bit of money. A good set of weapons for kobudo can cost hundreds of dollars. If I want to do iaido training, I need to get a decent iaito or katana, and that can cost even more. My, my... That gets expensive!
From those statement above, though, can you assume that I'm unhappy with my school? Without knowing for sure, how can you tell someone to simply leave their school?
You might be correct. Perhaps she isn't happy, but until you're certain, why light flames of discontent if there aren't any, just because someone mentioned how much something costs?
You can't base someone's happiness on how much (or how little) they're paying. I can talk about how expensive the price of ribeye steaks is getting, yet that doesn't mean that I'm unhappy with eating ribeye steaks.
Perhaps they'd care to enlighten us rather than everyone guessing. I doubt saying leave is going to light any flames of discontent, if they're happy I think they'd be inclined to laugh. It's the internet who on earth is going to leave where they train because somebody they don't know has posted up lol! That's just silly and making far more of a single word post than it deserves.
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Yet, you wanted her to leave her dojo, based on your guess? Shouldn't you give a dojo the benefit of the doubt until it's actually proven that the dojo is a bad one?
I would think that it's better to know the situation (or person) before passing judgement on them.
