Attack of the Killer Trolls.

Em MacIntosh

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This whole thread has been an entertaining one filled with amusing irony, blatant examples of what we were just talking about and excellent replies. My 2 cents is that I'd really hate to see this site go down. I have had no problems here as of yet that I felt were outside the rules. I think the moderateors do a fantastic job and the overwhelming majority of us are here for what we're supposed to be here for, to learn, teach and share. I know it has had a profound effect on the way I view martial arts, my training methods and my outlook of people in general. I think a lot of the problem is people sometimes forget that they can agree to disagree. You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped and the newbies will have to be able to tell the real deal from the fake. Just like choosing a school. The easy way is more seductive, hell, I'd love it if fighting was just like TKD foot tag (I'm talking about that aspect of someTKD). It gives a poser a chance to be a "big man". Some just want to bash. I can ignore them without a button.

I have a suggestion: Someone more poetic than I might want to post a lovely piece in the beginner's forum reminding them of the wisdom of the masters and not all that glitters is gold. A polite, subtle discouragement of giving too much credit to those who sound like they talk a good game. They say the empty can rattles the most, right?
 

shane

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I believe the moderateors do a truly unbelievable job and the swamping most of us are here for what we're presumed to be here for, to discover, educate and share. I understand it has had a deep effect on the way I outlook martial creative pursuits, my teaching procedures and my outlook of persons in general. I believe many of the difficulty is persons occasionally overlook that they can acquiesce to disagree. You can't help somebody who doesn't desire to be assisted and the newbies will have to be adept to notify the genuine deal from the fake.
 

SensibleManiac

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We, the staff aren't here to babysit anyone.

Damn, and all this time I was coming on here to be babysat, do you mean I haven't had a babysitter in years?
:uhohh:
 
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Bob Hubbard

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I'm too busy on my private island surrounded by beautiful island girls, drinking a pina colada, and enjoying the tropical sun to babysit anyone. What, y'all thought I was paying for the server, net connection and software with the billions of $ I get in ad revenue? ;)
 

Carol

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Really Bob? You like pina coladas? And getting caught in the rain, I suppose?

With all apologies to Rupert Holmes, after reading Bob's post it sounds like he likes likes pina coladas and getting caught in the...sun. ;)
 

Chris Parker

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But, importantly, what are his views on Yoga? People with half a brain? Making love at midnight? Hmm, may be going a bit too far with that one....
 

Carol

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Never heard him talk about yoga, so I don't think he's much in to it. The half a brain...well, I suppose that all depends on whether the brain is half empty or half full. As far as the last one, well...he's a guy. ;)
 
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Bob Hubbard

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I'm usually watching Robot Chicken at midnight, but that's because the wife works mostly opening shifts. If I attacked her then, she'd kenpo my ***, and that would be bad. ;)


This is an interesting thread, because I had to think back to when I started it in 06. We were drowning in trouble makers then. In the 4 years since, things have calmed down a lot, we've had a number of staff changes, 2 rules rewrites, a server change, and more. It's been a wild and interesting ride. I can't wait to see how the next 10 years go. :)
 

Carol

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This is an interesting thread, because I had to think back to when I started it in 06. We were drowning in trouble makers then. In the 4 years since, things have calmed down a lot, we've had a number of staff changes, 2 rules rewrites, a server change, and more. It's been a wild and interesting ride. I can't wait to see how the next 10 years go. :)

I think everyone should get lifetime supporting memberships so they don't miss a minute of it. :D
 

Xue Sheng

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This is an interesting thread, because I had to think back to when I started it in 06. We were drowning in trouble makers then. In the 4 years since, things have calmed down a lot, we've had a number of staff changes, 2 rules rewrites, a server change, and more. It's been a wild and interesting ride. I can't wait to see how the next 10 years go. :)

Time out whilst I think up some more deviltry - Bugs Bunny
 

Xue Sheng

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icon14.gif
 

elmerq

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Recently, in regards to a few individuals, we've heard grumblings of dissatisfaction from a few members. There has been mention of mass exoduses, abandoning the site, etc. because of comments made by a few individuals.

I would like to address some points here.

1- When you read something that is a violation of our rules, use the Report to Moderator feature, so that we know there is a problem. If you do not, we may not see the problem. The Report to Moderator (RTM) is an icon of a white triangle with a red border with an ! in it. It is located at the top-right of each post. Please only send 1 RTM on an issue, or 3 max if its a problem that jumps threads.

2- Being an idiot, a moron, a poor speller, a poor writer, a close minded fool or a pompous windbag are not violations of our rules in of themselves. If they were, we'd have to fire at least 4 staff as well since they violate at least 3 of those.

3- "I don't like this persons posts, so I think hes a troll and you should ban him or I'm going to leave." Ok. Bye. We have a feature on this site, it's called "ignore". You can put someone on your ignore list, and then you will not have to read anything they say. Interestingly enough, in 1 such recent case, there is a very vocal individual who we have received many complaints about the content of his posts....but only 4 people have placed him on ignore...none of whom are the ones complaining that he posts crap. Use the tool folks. Thats why it's there.

4- "All the good people are leaving." No, but they are abandoning the field and giving the win to the vocal yet wrong. We would much prefer to see the good people post more, and call in more good people, who can not shout down, insult and ridicule someone like so many other sites, but drown out their misinformation with solid, professionally written information.

5- "Bob you do nothing to stop these people." If anyone honestly thinks I am here, sitting on my duff, enjoying watching nutjobs and dangerous people trash things, then I honesty want to say I think you're a fool. I try very hard to keep things as fair as possible, to give people a fair shake. We get 'invaded' by losers and trouble makers all the time. We get a bunch of honestly uninformed and misinformed beginners all the time. I am sorry that we don't jump to ban people just because someone doesn't like them, or thinks they are stupid or has a different viewpoint than the mainstream. We try to be fair, sometimes more than fair, before booting people. I spend hours each day on the phone with staff discussing things, hours in conference discussing situations, etc. I visit other forums where possible problem users have been, checking their history, and communicating with other board admins about problem members. We are doing quite a bit, but it's behind the scenes. In public, we warn, we nudge, we correct, and when we have to we suspend and ban.

Another point is, I'm sorry but there are arts I know nothing about, or so little as to be pointless. For me to jump in to the fray, would do nothing. A no-belt trying to back up senior practitioners in an art that someone is now claiming rank/knowledge/etc in just holds no water. Guy with a pistol doesn't really reinforce an armour column now does it? Call in air support, or bring in more mature experts who can support your position and drown out the other guy.


Bottom line: The board is, what it's members make it. We, the staff aren't here to babysit anyone. If you don't like what you read, then if its a rules issue, report it, if its a different opinion, debate it, if it's a person who drives you nuts, ignore him, and if its someone posting complete crap, bring in some experts and out post him. Once we are aware of the problem, we can look into fixes. But not until then.

You don't stand watching your house burn while holding a cell phone crying about non-responsive firemen. You don't stand by a payphone watching a mugging crying about no police. You don't read a message board crying about trolls and no mods while staring at the RTM/PM/Contactus Form links.
Period.


Complaints, comments all welcome.

Thanks- I am very new to the discussion forum and haven't really met anyone I didn't like so far. This is very good to know.
 

Bruno@MT

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Recently, in regards to a few individuals, we've heard grumblings of dissatisfaction from a few members. There has been mention of mass exoduses, abandoning the site, etc. because of comments made by a few individuals.

I would like to address some points here.


2- Being an idiot, a moron, a poor speller, a poor writer, a close minded fool or a pompous windbag are not violations of our rules in of themselves. If they were, we'd have to fire at least 4 staff as well since they violate at least 3 of those.

3- "I don't like this persons posts, so I think hes a troll and you should ban him or I'm going to leave." Ok. Bye. We have a feature on this site, it's called "ignore". You can put someone on your ignore list, and then you will not have to read anything they say. Interestingly enough, in 1 such recent case, there is a very vocal individual who we have received many complaints about the content of his posts....but only 4 people have placed him on ignore...none of whom are the ones complaining that he posts crap. Use the tool folks. Thats why it's there.
Complaints, comments all welcome.

This is not my board to manage, and in fact I come here partly because I don't have to care about all that. But you really do have a choice here. Get rid of the nutjobs and the trolls. If they act like idiots, get rid of them. That's what you do with trolls. (It's what we do in any case). To do otherwise is to give them the opportunity to harrass a bunch of good people. Don't hide behind the rules or just say that it is up to other people to ignore them as long as they don't really break the rules.

The stage is yours. You are the one yielding it.
 
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Bob Hubbard

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If we banned everyone who annoyed people with their postings, we'd have had to remove a lot of active folks, probably me included. It's a balance act, which we work on improving as we go.
 

Bruno@MT

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If we banned everyone who annoyed people with their postings, we'd have had to remove a lot of active folks, probably me included. It's a balance act, which we work on improving as we go.

To be fair, I am not talking about disagreeable content, just disagreeable ways of presenting that content. And it is true that this would hurt active posters. That's what you get when you leave the problem unchecked for long. That sort of thing spreads.

And as for you, oh glorious leader... ;) ... you should lead by example.
Not criticizing you btw. Just giving my opinion as was requested in the original post (which is a bit old admittedly).
 

jks9199

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To be fair, I am not talking about disagreeable content, just disagreeable ways of presenting that content. And it is true that this would hurt active posters. That's what you get when you leave the problem unchecked for long. That sort of thing spreads.

And as for you, oh glorious leader... ;) ... you should lead by example.
Not criticizing you btw. Just giving my opinion as was requested in the original post (which is a bit old admittedly).
Disagreeable presentation in whose view and opinion?

That's the whole issue. You may not like how someone says something, but I may think they're great. Mostly, the staff here figures that everyone can be adult. If you're in a bar or at a party, and there's a guy you think is a loudmouth, you don't expect the host to kick him out as a general rule, unless he's causing a problem for everyone. You just move away from them, right? Same principle here...
 

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