As a Martial Artist

[MartialArtHeart]

As a Martial Artist, or a Black Belt, or whatever name you prefer, do you believe that your art should be used "for self-defense and self-defense only", or is it also your responsibility to help those in need? Honestly, I'm torn. I think people should get off their butts and learn how to defend themselves, because criminals the world over are training in their prison cells and such, getting ready to attack them. And one would think, of course, family is a given. Your grandmother, baby, what have you. Well, does that make it others' responsibility to protect their family, or should you intervene if they need help?
I'm saying this as a martial artist, in fighting situations. But our training stretches further, to the mental... so it should extend to all areas. What I mean is, not simply as a good Samaritan, but as a Martial Artist, is it your responsibility to trash the punk that's robbing someone else's grandma?

I say yes... absolutely. Let's hear it.

 

[Kacey]

In general, I think it is incumbent upon all of us to participate in society - in the negative aspects as well as the positive.

As has been discussed in other threads, yes, I think all of us - martial artists or not - have the responsibility to help protect those around us who are being abused, misused, attacked, or otherwise victimized. What that looks like is much too dependent on the situation for me to give a flat "yes" to always intervening directly in such situations; there are too many variables in terms of the situation, the training/ability of the observer(s), and so on. However, I've heard of too many cases where people stood and watched instead of intervening - not even looking for other assistance in the area, if available, or calling 911, generally a very low risk response.

Criminals count on the lack of response from those around them to aid them in their crimes - it's time society as a whole emerged from its turtle shell instead of retreating further.

 

[CoryKS]

For me, MA is about sovereignty. In reducing the degree to which others can inflict damage upon you, you reduce the degree to which your decisions may be influenced by violence or the threat of violence. Whether I extend that to include others depends on many things, including the level of separation between myself and the other person (are they family? friends? complete strangers?) and the level of risk involved. It's like charity or anything else - people tend to prefer to take care of those in their immediate circle, with the degree of concern lessening with each outer circle. But I also think that at the outer circle there is a minimum level of responsibility that every person, MAist or not, should uphold, even if it's only calling 911. Nobody should just turn away and say "it's not my problem", IMO.

 

[Grenadier]

Moderator's Note:

Thread moved to General Martial Arts Talk.

-Ronald Shin
-MT Moderator

 

[Balrog]

But I also think that at the outer circle there is a minimum level of responsibility that every person, MAist or not, should uphold, even if it's only calling 911. Nobody should just turn away and say "it's not my problem", IMO.

Hear, hear!!

 

[MJS]

As a Martial Artist, or a Black Belt, or whatever name you prefer, do you believe that your art should be used "for self-defense and self-defense only", or is it also your responsibility to help those in need? Honestly, I'm torn. I think people should get off their butts and learn how to defend themselves, because criminals the world over are training in their prison cells and such, getting ready to attack them. And one would think, of course, family is a given. Your grandmother, baby, what have you. Well, does that make it others' responsibility to protect their family, or should you intervene if they need help?
I'm saying this as a martial artist, in fighting situations. But our training stretches further, to the mental... so it should extend to all areas. What I mean is, not simply as a good Samaritan, but as a Martial Artist, is it your responsibility to trash the punk that's robbing someone else's grandma?

I say yes... absolutely. Let's hear it.

For myself, I feel it should be used to defend myself and family. As for others in need...CoryKS prety much said what I'd do...call 911. Providing the police with a detailed description of whats happening, the accused party or parties, weapons, vehicle, make/model/color.

Mike

 

[zDom]

For myself, I feel it should be used to defend myself and family. As for others in need...CoryKS prety much said what I'd do...call 911. Providing the police with a detailed description of whats happening, the accused party or parties, weapons, vehicle, make/model/color.

Mike

This is how I feel as well.

True friends may also be considered "family" but I'm not going to stick my neck out for every acquaintance who happens to know my name.

I suppose if a lady, child or elderly person was in imminent danger, I would probably intervene after placing a quick call to authorites via cell phone (domestic situations being the exception: intervening in THOSE is sure to end badly. Just ask any of MT's LEEs).

 

[still learning]

Hello, Considering the lawsuits, jail times, and involvement of fights (one can get injury seriously or killed).

Today one is better off being a witness (and call the police).

Off course each sitution will be different and there will be times YOU MUST HELP..........

As a part-time Security officer...we are taught NOT to get involved in breaking up fights...but to call the police and be a WITNESS. We are not law enforcement officers. NOT licence as Police Officers.

Judgement of what to do? ......depends? on whats happening...NEVER get involve with any domestic disputes (let the police handle these!)

In Hawaii Police Officers are NEVER to go alone for domestic disputes...you will never know who will turn on you!

.....Ah 30,000 people each year because of EGO's and their prides....so easy to get killed,injury for life....Hard to be humble and kind........Aloha

 

[DArnold]

Hello, Considering the lawsuits, jail times, and involvement of fights (one can get injury seriously or killed).

Today one is better off being a witness (and call the police).

Off course each sitution will be different and there will be times YOU MUST HELP..........

As a part-time Security officer...we are taught NOT to get involved in breaking up fights...but to call the police and be a WITNESS. We are not law enforcement officers. NOT licence as Police Officers.

Judgement of what to do? ......depends? on whats happening...NEVER get involve with any domestic disputes (let the police handle these!)

In Hawaii Police Officers are NEVER to go alone for domestic disputes...you will never know who will turn on you!

.....Ah 30,000 people each year because of EGO's and their prides....so easy to get killed,injury for life....Hard to be humble and kind........Aloha

So how many of you out their think that the police can do something, or that it's the police's job?

I would get involved because governments/police... do not solve problems. People do!

 

[Carol]

When I lived in the city, most muggings and other personal attacks that I saw were over with in a matter of seconds. The ones that weren't...well...I didn't stick around long enough to find out the outcome.

If a live situation happened with someone else...
AND
I could clearly see what was going on
AND
I could clearly tell that someone was genuinely being victimized
AND
It was clear that physical action would matter more than any other action (ie: calling 911)
AND
I was close enough to take that physical action
AND
Could do so in enough time to make a difference
AND
could do so without serious risk to my own health.

Then I may consider getting involved.

 

[BudoTiger]

Depends on the situation, what is going on, and how it will directly affect myself and my family

 

[Sukerkin]

Cory's post is one of the best, concise, expostions of what a trained martial artists societal responsibility should be.

Well spoken, sir :tup:.

I defer to Carol's logic tree too but have to add that I'm sometimes not that rational. However, you'd be surprised the effect a bellowed "Oi! What the 'ell do you think you're doing!?" can have, especially if you're not on your own.

 

[MJS]

So how many of you out their think that the police can do something, or that it's the police's job?

I would get involved because governments/police... do not solve problems. People do!

Thats correct, it is the job of the police! They are more capable and better prepared than I to handle a domestic, a mugging or anything else. They can make an arrest, I can't. They have the means with them, to detain someone, ie: handcuff, I dont. Its their job to protect and serve, not mine.

If you choose to do their job for them, I wish you the best.

Mike

 

[MartialArtHeart]

Its their job to protect and serve, not mine.

Wow, I never thought I'd hear that from anyone on MT... but I suppose that just shows my naivety.
I feel sorry for you if you don't consider it your... not necessarily job, but responsibility. I feel that to be my job: lifelong, unpaid, but a job nevertheless.
Not to say I'm without reason. I won't go running into a situation if no good can possibly come of it, but most times we have to make a decision. And if someone's life depends on that decision, I'm willing to put mine at risk to preserve theirs, even if that seems stupid. If I saw a gang fight, I'd stay out of it... but someone trying to kidnap a child, or even someone beating on a dog... I'm gonna intervene if I feasibly can. Guess it's just a personality flaw that has nothing to do with karate... but I sure thought that as a MAist... more specifically a MartialArtHeart, my duty was to protect those around me.
It still is.

 

[Carol]

What does someone trying to kidnap a child look like?

 

[Brother John]

As a Martial Artist, or a Black Belt, or whatever name you prefer, do you believe that your art should be used "for self-defense and self-defense only", or is it also your responsibility to help those in need?

should you intervene if they need help?

What I mean is, not simply as a good Samaritan, but as a Martial Artist, is it your responsibility to trash the punk that's robbing someone else's grandma?

I say yes... absolutely. Let's hear it.

I say that (Personally)
one should do the best they can to give the most help and assistance they can WHEN they can, where they are!

If you can help, do so.
Your Brother
John

 

[TheOriginalName]

If you know that someone is in true trouble - that is being physically thretened or other physical situation I believe it is the responsibility of everyone to attempt to assist regardless of if they are trained in an MA or not.

Naturally we should not go placing ourselves in a unacceptably dangerous position.... but we should attempt to help, even if its calling the police and then waiting for them to arrive.

Bravery and honor are two of the virtues that we are meant to learn as MS-ist.
How do we show these if our actions are to turn away and pretend we never saw anything.

Again.....just the jabbering of a bloke who enjoys his "insanity".

 

[tntma12]

I would say it depends on the situation. For the most part I do believe in helping people in need, but on the other hand, its hard to get involved in a situation that you have no idea what is going on. For example, if you see a guy getting jumped and you help him, you never know what he may have done, maybe he deserved it, maybe he attacked someones sister, or mother, or something. As far as you know you could be helping out a rapist, woman beater, bully, ect. And now you have just got yourself involved with a nasty situation. Now granted, this may be an extreme situation, but in this day and age, anything is possible.

As far as someone robbing an elderly woman or something like that, then yes, I would help in that case. Like I said, it would depend on the situation.

I would at least call 911 and advise them of the situation, and let them do their job.

Im not saying I dont believe in helping people, especially family and close freinds, but I would recommend being careful with situations that you dont know anything about, you could be biting off more than you can chew.

 

[qi-tah]

The decision about what to do when you see someone else in conflict (and clear distress) with another is always such a line call, depending on the individual circs. It's kinda hard to make blanket statements about it - even statements of intent kinda fall over as you may find yrself reacting instinctively rather than rationally. I found myself in this situation years ago when riding my m'bike late one night... i saw this woman getting beaten up in a carpark and immediately swung over and shined my high beams on them. The guy doing the belting backed up a few steps and then the woman made a bolt for it, jumping on my pillion seat and screaming at me to floor it. At the same time i saw about 6 people start to get out of nearby cars.... she didn't need to tell me a second time! :erg: After i rode her to her door she told me that it was her boyfriend slapping her about, and it was his mates in the car. Brr! In a way i'm glad i stopped and helped her get out of a nasty situation, but on reflection i really shouldn't have done it... (and i certainly wouldn't do it again!) there were just so many things that could have gone wrong. Mind you, i didn't have a mobile on me so my options were limited. Anyway, i just hope she got out of that r'ship in one piece.

 

[morph4me]

Wow, I never thought I'd hear that from anyone on MT... but I suppose that just shows my naivety.
I feel sorry for you if you don't consider it your... not necessarily job, but responsibility. I feel that to be my job: lifelong, unpaid, but a job nevertheless.
Not to say I'm without reason. I won't go running into a situation if no good can possibly come of it, but most times we have to make a decision. And if someone's life depends on that decision, I'm willing to put mine at risk to preserve theirs, even if that seems stupid. If I saw a gang fight, I'd stay out of it... but someone trying to kidnap a child, or even someone beating on a dog... I'm gonna intervene if I feasibly can. Guess it's just a personality flaw that has nothing to do with karate... but I sure thought that as a MAist... more specifically a MartialArtHeart, my duty was to protect those around me.
It still is.

I think you have to read MJS's previous post, he didn't say he wouldn't do anything, just that he would probably not get involved physically, but call the police. Getting involved in a situation without knowing all the facts can get you hurtt sued or worse, and figuring out what's going on is the job of the police. I can understand and agree with that logic, what I can't understand is someone who "doesn't want to get involved" on any level, including picking up a telephone.