Are ninja's real or just japanese urban legends

[ninjatradingcompany]

Hello everyone!

I look forward to your replies. This seems to be a hot topic and I know that most people believe Ninjas to be a real historical japanese subculture so this should be fun! Talk to you soon!

Best regards,

Ninja Trading Company
www.ninjatrading.blogspot.com

 

[Monadnock]

I don't think that there is any real deate as to whether or not there were people who acted in those roles.

 

[Sukerkin]

Whereas I would argue that there is in fact considerable debate as to whether the dreaded Ninja (Hollywood Stylee) had any existence in historical context.

Meet & Greet is not the place for getting too in depth tho' - it just goes to show that there is no such thing as a straight answer to a simple question .

 

[seasoned]

Welcome

 

[tshadowchaser]

I moved this to the general area for discussion I think it will get more replies here
sheldon bedell
mt mod

 

[dart68]

Ninjas were real. It is their exploits that are the things of legend and myth. Ninjas were good at psychological warfare and played upon the fears and superstitions of the people (mostly the samurai). If someone is afraid of you even before you begin battle, then you have an advantage. That is how the legends and mythology were born. Hollywood took those legends and blew them even more out of proportion and managed to create some of the worst movies in history!

 

[Doc_Jude]

Ninjaz are so real it makes me wanna crap my pants.

 

[stephen]

The plural of ninja is ninja, it's like moose that way..


But with fewer antlers....Instead they substitute other pointy bits....

 

[Doc_Jude]

Thanx, lil' Ninja. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

One thing is for sure is that no one in Japan used any equipment that is offered up on your website.

 

[SKB]

All legends have some base in reality. There is historical facts which show there were people we call ninja.

 

[Sukerkin]

I'd love to read those sources, SKB.

Whilst there is no doubt that a martial art that has ninja (sort of) in the name exists, the actual, verifiable existence of mysterious clans of outcast samurai/peasant class nobodies/special hidden bloodline warriors (choose your poison on that) is a whole other ball-game.

The perspective that is most easy on the historical sensibilities is that there were samurai who trained in additional arts to the norm and engaged in what we today would call espionage (including some 'wet-work depending on which accounts you accept). Beyond that, you enter deeper into the world of hearsay and outright fiction.

 

[ninjatradingcompany]

Thanks

 

[SKB]

Ok there were folks back then who WE call 'ninja'. There are historical records of folks living in the hills of Japan who the main goverment went after and were used for espionage, etc. I'll look it up if you would like and send you what I can find? Yes most folks do not realize a lot of these people were samurai who lost a war or had some other reason to run.

Just as there were robbers in Sherwood forest, a guy or guys who went by the name Merlin, a land to the west the vikings called Vinland and white folks with beards from the ocean the aztecs thought were gods. My point being there is always some truth to a legend. Jesse James did rob trains, no you could say he was a theif or you could say he was a hero. Depends on your prospective????

If you saying the skills these people had could not of made it do the road of time......... ok thanks for your thoughts on the subject.

 

[MA-Caver]

One thing is for sure is that no one in Japan used any equipment that is offered up on your website.

Aww man really? Dang and I was hoping I get to see a YouTube video of someone using ... THIS :uhyeah:

 

[LuzRD]

radzorz!!! they have ninja stun gunzz!!!

 

[Sukerkin]

There are historical records of folks living in the hills of Japan who the main goverment went after and were used for espionage, etc. I'll look it up if you would like and send you what I can find?

I'd be most happy if you could.

Yes most folks do not realize a lot of these people were samurai who lost a war or had some other reason to run.

But it is a big leap from using Ronin or Monks in 'plausible deniability' mode (to pinch a modern phrase) to there being anything remotely resembling the Ninja mythology.

Just as there were robbers in Sherwood forest, a guy or guys who went by the name Merlin, a land to the west the vikings called Vinland and white folks with beards from the ocean the aztecs thought were gods. My point being there is always some truth to a legend. Jesse James did rob trains, no you could say he was a theif or you could say he was a hero. Depends on your prospective????

You don't happen to frequent Japancast do you, my friend? It's just that the above is very much in line with some thoughts I posted there with regard to this very subject (the existence or otherwise of the Deadly Ninja).

I concur that the myth sprang from somewhere but it is much more credible that the 'Ninja' concept was a propoganda tool used by daimyo to intimidate and harass than an actual organisation with secret schools in the mountains, innovative technologies and all manner of other claimed deeds.

Another probable source of some of the Ninja tales comes from the verifiably real temples of warrior monks who caused a good deal of upheaval and weighed in on one side or another in a number of wars.

Much of what is bandied about as Ninja Facts these days are derived from stories written centuries ago - by 'stories' I do mean fiction rather than accounts of 'daring do'.

If you saying the skills these people had could not of made it do the road of time......... ok thanks for your thoughts on the subject.

I'm not quite sure what to make of that last bit - I'm assuming it's not as dismissive as I read it to be?. I'm sure we can have a productive discourse on this subject, whether we agree of not :tup:.

I look forward to reading your sources :rei:.

 

[MA-Caver]

*SNIFF*..... *SNIFF-SNIFF*.... I smell a History Channel documentary needed... or did they do one already?? www.historychannel.com http://www.history.com/media.do?id=mc_ninjas_broadband&action=clip the only thing I could find... but there's gotta be others... if not... well, there ought to be!

 

[Sukerkin]

OMG!

I got as far as about the 1 min 30 mark before I had to click "Stop!".

I got that far because I like old Sgt. Ermey but once their so called 'expert' began talking about the square tsuba on a ninjato I'd had enough. Have him bring it over here and I'll show him where to put it ... :grr:.

Sorry, blood-pressure dropping now and froth abating from around the mouth .

It really makes you wonder why we bother sometimes, doesn't it?

 

[grydth]

One thing is for sure is that no one in Japan used any equipment that is offered up on your website.

I have been waiting to see if the thread originator would seek to parry the direct thrust contained in your post. Silence can speak eloquently.