Apologize? I would have tackled them!

[CanuckMA]

Stew is awesome.

Latkes are arteries clogging monsters. We also produce a lot of doctors because the diet can be unhealthy.

I mean, the year is peppered with holidays that can prety much be all summed up the same way: Someone tried to wipe us out, we kicked their butts, let's eat.

RoshHaShana and Yom Kippur ar the notsable execptions.

RH is more like: Yeah, New Year, let's eat.
YK is a lot more complex: We're about to fast 25 hours, let's eat. followed by a long fast then, we've just fasted 25 hours, let's eat.

Detect a pattern??

 

[granfire]

Stew is awesome.

Latkes are arteries clogging monsters. We also produce a lot of doctors because the diet can be unhealthy.

I mean, the year is peppered with holidays that can prety much be all summed up the same way: Someone tried to wipe us out, we kicked their butts, let's eat.

RoshHaShana and Yom Kippur ar the notsable execptions.

RH is more like: Yeah, New Year, let's eat.
YK is a lot more complex: We're about to fast 25 hours, let's eat. followed by a long fast then, we've just fasted 25 hours, let's eat.

Detect a pattern??

Let's eat!

(I think Chanuka (sp?) with the oil is the kicker tho)

can you eat the Latkes with apple sauce? Or put some salmon, shrimp and horseradish sauce with it? Creamed of course?

 

[Archangel M]

Start chanting and ignoring commands on a plane these days? You deserve what you get.

 

[CanuckMA]

Let's eat!

(I think Chanuka (sp?) with the oil is the kicker tho)

can you eat the Latkes with apple sauce? Or put some salmon, shrimp and horseradish sauce with it? Creamed of course?

Latkes are usually eaten with either apple sauce or sour cream.

 

[MJS]

That I have to agree with. There is not much that can be done about the plane. If I catch a cross country flight that leaves before sunrise and takes over 4 hours, I'll have to pray in the plane. Once I'm off the plane however, I'll find an unobtrusive corner to pray. It is possible that in your encounter, it was the only place available, but I find it hard to believe. However, if I'm in a public place and have to pray, I expect to not be disturbed providing I'm not impeding traffic or safety.

I'm not against people praying. I'm against people doing something that will no doubt cause a stir or concern amongst the rest of the group. If someone wants to pray, fine, pray away. But, please do it in a way thats not going to make people think that the plane they're on is going to blow up. People start standing and moving about when they're not supposed to, strapping things onto them, etc., yeah, thats causing a disturbance.

 

[granfire]

Latkes are usually eaten with either apple sauce or sour cream.

I have not tried sour cream yet

Ok, foodie thoughts being reined in now.

 

[SensibleManiac]

I wish people would behave themselves when on an airplane.

I don't know what it is, I have a theory that maybe it's the fact that they paid the airfare and feel entitled because of it, I'm not sure.

In general I have seen more selfishness and stupidity on the few planes I've taken in the last few years. I admit I don't fly frequently anymore and don't see myself flying anytime soon.

A few months after 911 I had to take a plane through the US, back then tensions were still high concerning the terrorist attacks.

I remember taking those flights (there and back) with the attitude that if anyone gets up and acts suspisciously or starts screaming something out, I'm going to attck them as fast and furiously as possible including anyone who might be with them.

I also remember people behaving themselves and no one so much as even looking at me with the exceptions of a couple of people around me who politely asked me something about the overhead compartments.

Flash forward this to a few years ago when I took a plane on my honeymoon with my wife.
On the way back people were arrogant, impatient, took my overhead compartment and glared at me, and behaved like overall a$$rags. One weirdo kept jumping out of his seat and telling the stewardess he wasn't comfortable, the seats were uncomfortable... blah blah blah, whining until she let him sit in the back where a few seats next to each other were empty.

Had I not been with my wife, I'm almost positive I would have knocked one of these idiots out.

My point being that people need to remember that because they're on a plane they have extra reason to behave themselves.
As for the Teffillin, I rememeber MANY years ago, I saw a Rabbi blessing or praying for people with these on. It looked weird for someone who had never seen it, but under the circumstances I had witnessed it, it appeared harmless.
On a plane, where tensions are high, I don't think it's asking much to tell the stewardess, what they are intending to do, and if she says no, well too bad. I think we have to think of others as well and our freedoms have to end where others begin.

Personally, it is my OPINION that religious artifacts and such should be limited to religious institutions or private use.
But of course that's just my opinion.

If you want to pray on a plane, go ahead, just keep it to yourself and don't freak everyone else out.

 

[CanuckMA]

I'm not against people praying. I'm against people doing something that will no doubt cause a stir or concern amongst the rest of the group. If someone wants to pray, fine, pray away. But, please do it in a way thats not going to make people think that the plane they're on is going to blow up. People start standing and moving about when they're not supposed to, strapping things onto them, etc., yeah, thats causing a disturbance.

The standing we can do. The strapping things on is not optional. Have we become sucha paranoid peoplke that the sight of something we have not encountered before sends us into a panic? If so, then 'they' have already won.

 

[granfire]

The standing we can do. The strapping things on is not optional. Have we become sucha paranoid peoplke that the sight of something we have not encountered before sends us into a panic? If so, then 'they' have already won.

Well, it's not like the strapping on has not already been done. Luckily the sneakers and boxers didn't go off.

But I think there was a great deal of insensitivity going on. I am sure if these gentlemen had addressed their fellow passengers and let them in on their intentions to fulfill their daily worship requirements, little would have been said. Maybe a cautious 'can you do it seated' followed by some inquireries about those curious boxes they strapped to their heads.

Seems to me it was a case of 'finger in your eye' thing. I see enough of it around here: if you object to my actions, you are a hater. And no, it is probably not linked to religious believes though it seems prevelent in some factions of the devout, but not denomination specific)

Kind of strange, with all them new devices, phones, and computers and such that let us talk to people all over the world all the time...we really lost the means of communicating with each other.

 

[MJS]

The standing we can do.

Sure, when they say you can stand. Otherwise, stay in your seat. In this case, according to the article, they disregarded repeated requestes to stay seated.

The strapping things on is not optional. Have we become sucha paranoid peoplke that the sight of something we have not encountered before sends us into a panic? If so, then 'they' have already won.

I wouldn't call it being paranoid, I'd say its better to be alert and cautious. I take it you would be calm? Theres a difference between flying into a panic and being alert to some guys disregarding instructions, and acting weird.

Again, as I said, I'm not against someone praying, but if its going to cause a disruption and possibly be viewed as an attempt at blowing up the plane, theres a time and place for everything, and these guys didn't exercise common sense. Seems like thats lacking alot these days.

 

[David43515]

I think you misunderstood what CanukMA meant when he said "The standing we can do". If I understood him correctly, (AND CORRECT ME IF I`M WRONG.) he meant "The standing we can work with you on, it`s not a set-in-stone requirement the way that vocal prayer is."

This whole thing is a tough situation. A little understanding on both sides would have helped alot. I think that if the men in question knew they would have to make their prayers in flight they might have mentioned it to the flight crew before hand. But I can see where such a regular part of your daily routine becomes so commonplace that you don`t think about mentioning it. It`s like telling the guy in the seat next to you that you`ll be getting up later too brush your teeth. Who would think to do that?

@CanukMA: Now you`ve got me curious about Orthadox Judahism. I`m going to have to read up on it and find out more. I hate when my curiousity gets the better of me, but it happens all the time.

 

[CanuckMA]

David, you are corect. They were wrong to insist on standing while the seat belt sign was on. While standing is preffered, we can pray sitting down, However, laying teffilin is not optional during morning prayers.

 

[MJS]

My apologies on the misunderstanding. :asian:

 

[punisher73]

This whole thing is a tough situation. A little understanding on both sides would have helped alot. I think that if the men in question knew they would have to make their prayers in flight they might have mentioned it to the flight crew before hand. But I can see where such a regular part of your daily routine becomes so commonplace that you don`t think about mentioning it. It`s like telling the guy in the seat next to you that you`ll be getting up later too brush your teeth. Who would think to do that?

I agree about the communication aspect. But, as to the toothbrush analogy. Everyone is cognizant of the fact of behaviors not associated with mainstream culture. Everyone brushes their teeth (well most people do) in this country, not everyone places a religious icon on their forehead and wraps their wrists to pray out loud.

Especially post 9-11, it would seem that they would want to let others know what they were doing so as not cause alarm. This really has nothing to do with religion and just has to do with someone acting like rules don't apply to them and using religion as an excuse.

 

[granfire]

Kind of funny how things keep popping up.
After reading this thread I had an unusual encounter.

I play World of Warcraft and in the middle of a dungeon group one player excuses himself 'I'll be AFK for a few minutes I have to go pray'

I mean, in 4 years or so I had never had that happen. (Sadly he left group before I could ask him.)
I tried to remember the time incorrelation the prayer, but then again, he did not necessarily belong to the Jewish faith (and I know I expressed that not quiet right)


And of course, it has nothing to do with this thread, other than the reaches of education from it.

 

[CanuckMA]

AFAIK, only Jews and Muslims have fixed prayer times. And Jews have a little more flexibility on the times.

 

[granfire]

It just made me smile. ^_^

One of the good things about internet interaction:
While we are deprived of gestic and mimic or the sound of voice, we are also restricted to the content of the message. And so we do end up listening to a person we might otherwise overlook, be it because of age, color, gender or whatever.
(and you never know if that hot Bloodelf you are following is not really controlled by some crusty old dude in his mom's basement...)


(PS, I would have been rolling on the floor if you had just now said that it was you I was playing with! I was just considering that he might have had his schedule messed up and had been cutting it close...)

 

[jks9199]

Several Christian churches use various forms of the Liturgy of the Hours. HERE is a link to what seems to be an online breviary. I don't vouch for its complete accuracy... but it seems pretty well done to me.

 

[CanuckMA]

But are they obligated to pray a number of times a day, at fixed times?

 

[Twin Fist]

why is someone's religious obligation more important than the peace of mind of a plane full of people?