mastercole
Master Black Belt
I saw this same video on this webpage:
http://www.moonlee.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=66
Anyone know who Moon Lee in Australia is?
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Anyone know who Moon Lee in Australia is?
- Thread starter mastercole
- Start date
I saw this same video on this webpage:
http://www.moonlee.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=66
Anyone know who Moon Lee in Australia is?
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Yeah I do, I have fiends who have trained there and they held classes in the school hall of my high school and basically most tkd black belts I knew as a kid were his black belts. In fact, moon lee lives in my parent's street. I think they are a kukkiwon club, at least they definetly were when I had friends training there. They do wtf sparring. Their students have a reputation for being very good. They have a lot of clubs in brisbane, gold coast, townsville and melbourne. They are pretty well known over here. I am friends with a third dan from there but havent caught up with him in ages. We do talk regularly on facebook though so if you have any questions let me know and I''ll ask him.
I looked through the webpage and if you ask me, it is ralphmcpherson's dojang, according to what he has disclosed about his school in his posts. GM Lee has 4000 students, does the palgwae poomsae, wears cross over dobok instead of a v neck which is prohibited, and they have plenty of small dojang in schools, rec centers and the like. And according to cyriacus, it is from the same place as ralphmcpherson's dojang. Whether or not that's true, I can go ask my friend about GM Lee. He knows all the kukki taekwondo instructors in australia.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
cross over dobok, lots of students, palgwe forms, and schools in rec halls and schools etc describes heaps of clubs over here. I think Ive made it pretty obvious I dont train at a kkw club and cyriacius has no idea where I train,and according to that website he doesnt have a club anywhere near where I live. I do appreciate all the effort to find out where I train, but I really fail to see why its relevent.
Also they have the same promotional time in grade requirements as disclosed by ralphmcpherson in his posts. GM Moon Lee requires that you have to wait the equivalent of your next rank (one additional year) in order to test, as opposed to the kukkiwon standard of waiting the equivalent of your current rank before you test.
***
http://www.moonlee.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=76&Itemid=79
What happens when you reach black belt?
When you achieve your black belt you then must train for a minimum of one year to grade for 1st Dan. To qualify for second Dan you must train hard for a minimum of two years; you are then eligible to grade for your 2nd Dan. You may have to wait longer if you have missed training for any reason or if your instructor does not think you are ready.
For 3rd Dan you have to train for an additional 3 years after achieving your 2nd Dan and the same rules apply for further gradings; an additional 4 years training for 4th Dan, 5 years training for 5th Dan and so on.
***
http://www.moonlee.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=76&Itemid=79
What happens when you reach black belt?
When you achieve your black belt you then must train for a minimum of one year to grade for 1st Dan. To qualify for second Dan you must train hard for a minimum of two years; you are then eligible to grade for your 2nd Dan. You may have to wait longer if you have missed training for any reason or if your instructor does not think you are ready.
For 3rd Dan you have to train for an additional 3 years after achieving your 2nd Dan and the same rules apply for further gradings; an additional 4 years training for 4th Dan, 5 years training for 5th Dan and so on.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
according to that website he came to australia in 1974, my GM came here in 1971.
Asked my friend, got a super fast response:
In relation to Moon Lee.
GM Moon Hwan Lee. Jidokwan.
I believe his last Kukkiwon grading was 6th Dan in 1976.
He must be about 70 years old.
He came to Australia in 1976 and was sponsored here by Ken Mayfield. Ken
was GM Yong Dai Cho's student in Queensland. He was originally to stay in
Queensland and then decided to open schools in Melbourne. At the time he
was with our national body ATA. But he want to open too close to GM Young
Youl Oh. Back in those days they had a 5km radius rule
where you couldn't open next to another club. So he left and became
independent. He formed the Moon Lee TKD Association but didn't have any
other Koreans affiliate with him. He wasn't into sport TKD, so he just
focused on expanding. They had no full time centres, just in school halls.
He had about 50 of these branches mostly in Queensland about 2500 students.
It wasn't until 1995 when 50% of his empire decided to leave and form Yun
Hap TKD.
GM Moon Lee still does the Palgwae patterns instead of Taeguek. They also still
use karate style uniforms. They perform TKD like it was done in the 70's.
In relation to Moon Lee.
GM Moon Hwan Lee. Jidokwan.
I believe his last Kukkiwon grading was 6th Dan in 1976.
He must be about 70 years old.
He came to Australia in 1976 and was sponsored here by Ken Mayfield. Ken
was GM Yong Dai Cho's student in Queensland. He was originally to stay in
Queensland and then decided to open schools in Melbourne. At the time he
was with our national body ATA. But he want to open too close to GM Young
Youl Oh. Back in those days they had a 5km radius rule
where you couldn't open next to another club. So he left and became
independent. He formed the Moon Lee TKD Association but didn't have any
other Koreans affiliate with him. He wasn't into sport TKD, so he just
focused on expanding. They had no full time centres, just in school halls.
He had about 50 of these branches mostly in Queensland about 2500 students.
It wasn't until 1995 when 50% of his empire decided to leave and form Yun
Hap TKD.
GM Moon Lee still does the Palgwae patterns instead of Taeguek. They also still
use karate style uniforms. They perform TKD like it was done in the 70's.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Very interesting, I have heard of yun hap. Shame I spend 80% of the year in sydney or Id train there lol
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Can you find out for me who the GM is at yun hap? Ive heard some 'strange' things about that club from a rhee student I know who trained there for a period. And, is yun hap kkw? and while you are in investigative mode, who is the highest ranking australian tkdoin? Thanks in advance.
One more response:
GM Moon Lee and his instructors try and keep a tight grip on
their students. Once black belt, some leave to explore other avenues. Its
only after they do some research on the internet that they become wiser.
For some its too big a jump, so they remain content with GM Moon Lee or give up.
Prior to 2000, he was telling his students they could go to the Olympics and
no one (ATA - the National body) could stop them because it was the Olympic
team. They didn't even know that there was only 8 positions (we didn't have
to qualify that time).
Once 2000 came and went, they didn't talk much about the Olympics.
In terms of the Australian landscape it might be like USA but on a smaller
scale.
My estimate is around 80-100k tkd members in Aust.
WTF based 60%, ITF based 40%
TA 20-30k, STA 10-15K, ITF 10-15k, independent 50-60K.
Of the independent
GM Rhee - 5-7k (ITF based)
GM Moon Lee 1.5k (palgwe patterns only)
GM Rhee use to be with the ITF in the early 70's. However he decided to leave
and focus on building his empire. I think GM Moon Lee got his vision from
GM Rhee. "Keep your students in the dark". GM Rhee has been the most successful
club (numbers) in Australia. He was nation wide and spends lots on
advertising. Like a religion, he would brain wash his instructors to go
spread the word - promote, promote, promote. He kept all grading fees. He
had a military system of command. Ie, state instructor, regional
instructor, branch instructor. Easy to get to 1st guep, then very hard to
get promoted. His reasoning was he was looking for instructors and was
prepare for students to walk at that level. You could only get 2nd dan
after about 10-15 years or open a branch. 3rd dan was for regional, 4th was
for state.
GM Moon Lee and his instructors try and keep a tight grip on
their students. Once black belt, some leave to explore other avenues. Its
only after they do some research on the internet that they become wiser.
For some its too big a jump, so they remain content with GM Moon Lee or give up.
Prior to 2000, he was telling his students they could go to the Olympics and
no one (ATA - the National body) could stop them because it was the Olympic
team. They didn't even know that there was only 8 positions (we didn't have
to qualify that time).
Once 2000 came and went, they didn't talk much about the Olympics.
In terms of the Australian landscape it might be like USA but on a smaller
scale.
My estimate is around 80-100k tkd members in Aust.
WTF based 60%, ITF based 40%
TA 20-30k, STA 10-15K, ITF 10-15k, independent 50-60K.
Of the independent
GM Rhee - 5-7k (ITF based)
GM Moon Lee 1.5k (palgwe patterns only)
GM Rhee use to be with the ITF in the early 70's. However he decided to leave
and focus on building his empire. I think GM Moon Lee got his vision from
GM Rhee. "Keep your students in the dark". GM Rhee has been the most successful
club (numbers) in Australia. He was nation wide and spends lots on
advertising. Like a religion, he would brain wash his instructors to go
spread the word - promote, promote, promote. He kept all grading fees. He
had a military system of command. Ie, state instructor, regional
instructor, branch instructor. Easy to get to 1st guep, then very hard to
get promoted. His reasoning was he was looking for instructors and was
prepare for students to walk at that level. You could only get 2nd dan
after about 10-15 years or open a branch. 3rd dan was for regional, 4th was
for state.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Rhee tkd is huge over here, I had no idea they make it so difficult to get to 2nd dan though. It does explain why all their black belts I know are 1st dan. Choi's tkd is/was big over here also, I dont know if they are kkw, itf or independent though. A lot of clubs over here are quite 'backward' as far as marketing goes, so its hard to get info on all of them. I think its because the GM runs the show, and many are old and dont understnd marketing. Our club, for example, doesnt even have a wesite and that is not unheard of over here for many clubs. The computer savvy guys where I train are always asking if they can start a website, but the GM probably doesnt even know what a website is.
OP
OP
mastercole
Master Black Belt
Jidokwan guy, interesting. I'll ask my Sabumnim about him. Also interesting that the Australia Assoc. had a 5 km radius rule. I know the KTA had a similar rule a while back, but I don't think they have it today.
The Poomsae were off and kind of odd. What is with all the stamping on the floor with every motion? That is a shame especially with 1,500 students who sort of practice the Kukkiwon method, but will find out they don't fit in if they ever go outside of their small circle. Actually I am disappointed to find out that he is a from Jidokwan roots. I wonder who his teacher was?
OP
OP
mastercole
Master Black Belt
Tells his students they can go to the Olympics, riding that wave of glory, but then when it don't happen he preaches anti-sport slant. Wow.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Yeah, I thought the stamping looked a little odd also. They do palgwe 8 and 5 different to the way I was taught. Do they still have the 5klm rule over here? that was the first Id heard of it, but come to think of it I cant think of two kkw clubs in my area within 5klm of each other. Or maybe thats just coincidence.
I wondered about the stamping. I wonder if it's intentional, or just something about the accoustics in that room? Considering how loudly his feet squeaked when he turned, I wouldn't be suprsied.
We also practice the Palgwe (primarily, with the taegeuks done as optional) forms, and there are certainly some differences. For one thing, the back stances as shown in those videos had the weight pretty much centered, while we do the back stance with about 70% of the weight on the rear leg.
And we don't stomp.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Yes we are taught the same. 70% weight to back leg. Our instructor will some times come and lightly tap a students front leg when they are in back stance to check they dont have half their weight forward, in which case they will fall over. The guy in those videos seemed quite 'heavy' in the way he did things, he seems to 'plod' through the form. My instructor would not be happy about all the stomping either.I wondered about the stamping. I wonder if it's intentional, or just something about the accoustics in that room? Considering how loudly his feet squeaked when he turned, I wouldn't be suprsied.
We also practice the Palgwe (primarily, with the taegeuks done as optional) forms, and there are certainly some differences. For one thing, the back stances as shown in those videos had the weight pretty much centered, while we do the back stance with about 70% of the weight on the rear leg.
And we don't stomp.
Cyriacus
Senior Master
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Im just flattered he cares so much about where I train.
Im just flattered he cares so much about where I train.
Awww... you've got your own little CyberStalker... isn't it cute?
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
It would seem that wayAwww... you've got your own little CyberStalker... isn't it cute?
. I dont disclose who my GM is because I can be quite outspoken on certain things and dont want my comments being associated with my club or GM because it may not always reflect their views. My GM is an elderly, very private man and probably wouldnt like one of his students making statements on the internet that could be interpreted as always being his personal views. I also dont see that it would be of any relevence to my posts, opinions or advice. I do though, think its sad that this club (moon lee) has basically been slandered in this thread for no apparant reason. It only makes my decision not to mention my GM's name more credible. Certain things said about rhee tkd in this thread are also either not true at all or a gross exageration, I know for a fact because I know people who train there (and I live in australia and see their students and havent just googled gossip about them). Two clubs have already been slandered in this thread and I hope no others face the same fate.
