Anybody else sick of XMA?

Balrog

Master of Arts
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
1,717
Reaction score
402
Location
Houston, TX
Watchin a little ISKA on ESPN and I just dont like this stuff. Yeah it looks cool and I'm not doubting the athletic ability and dedication of the performers, but is it martial arts or more gymnastics. I would love to see traditional forms competition on the same stage. Just my opinion, im sure plenty of you will disagree but man I just dont like it.
More than sick of it. It's not martial arts; at best, it's martial dance. In reality, it's bad gymnastics combined with bad martial arts moves.
 

Twin Fist

Grandmaster
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
7,185
Reaction score
210
Location
Nacogdoches, Tx
the funny part is, the original trickers? they were superstars in the traditional art parts of karate and turned to tricking because there was nothing left in the curriculum to challenge them

Mike Chat?

I have seen him do traditional forms, and he is flawless.

the REALLY funny part is, this same conversation (traditionalists vs the non) was had back in 1982, but it was the traditionalists talkign about jean frenette and john and george chung

hell, i REMEMBER hearing people talking about George Chung and how "those machine gun kicks aint got no power, they are worthless on the street"

there is NOTHING new under the Sun
 

msmitht

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
836
Reaction score
66
Location
san diego
Leaving the stage presence on the stage is the very essence of sportsmanship and cockiness is more a function of immaturity than inherent to any particular activity.

Objectively speaking, every point you've made can be made equally for any youth sport. Kids in sports are there as much to learn life lessons as to learn the rules and skills associated with that activity. Cockiness and arrogance is the result of immaturity coupled with success, whether that's in TKD, BJJ or XMA.

Regarding XMA, if you don't like it, that's fine, but at least be honest enough about it to admit that it's your own personal bias. Comparing it to snowboarding in a chicken costume undermines your entire point and, in my opinion, makes you sound kind of petty.

Whatever you've coached, I can't believe you haven't seen the same behavior in some of the kids your team has competed against. Of course, not your own, because I'm sure they're perfect and you've never had any problems with cockiness or arrogance with any of your kids.

Wow. You took my comments way too personal. Do you practice XMA?
Of course I have seen it. I tell the kids to leave the attitude outside. I do not allow children that behave badly or act cocky to compete representing my school. I do have a personal bias against XMA. I would have thought that I made it perfectly clear.
My comparison was simply to point out that both made me laugh when I saw them.
Done on this subject. Boring me. Nite.
 

Daniel Sullivan

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
6,472
Reaction score
269
Location
Olney, Maryland
Watchin a little ISKA on ESPN and I just dont like this stuff. Yeah it looks cool and I'm not doubting the athletic ability and dedication of the performers, but is it martial arts or more gymnastics. I would love to see traditional forms competition on the same stage. Just my opinion, im sure plenty of you will disagree but man I just dont like it.
I pay virtually no attention to it, therefore I am not sick of it. Given that you have to actively look for it to see it, I am not sure how one can be sick of it. One sure remedy is to change the channel.:)

XMA is XMA. It should be judged as XMA. Traditional forms should be judged on a traditional basis. Each one has its own distinct merits.

Personally, the only time that I like that kind of flash is in movies. If I want to see nutty extreme stuff, I will put in the appropriate Jet Li movie. Or watch anime.

Daniel
 

Steve

Mostly Harmless
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
18,942
Reaction score
4,522
Location
Covington, WA
Wow. You took my comments way too personal. Do you practice XMA?
Of course I have seen it. I tell the kids to leave the attitude outside. I do not allow children that behave badly or act cocky to compete representing my school. I do have a personal bias against XMA. I would have thought that I made it perfectly clear.
My comparison was simply to point out that both made me laugh when I saw them.
Done on this subject. Boring me. Nite.
LOL. I'm boring you? In the words of Steve Martin, "Welllll, excuuuuuse me!" Maybe if you weren't so cocky and arrogant, you'd be a little more receptive to hearing opinions other than your own.

But I do want to assure you that I'm not taking it personally. In fact, reading my post again, I'm not sure what I might have writtent that led you to believe so. You'll definitely know it if you say something that gets under my skin. Right, Twinfist? :D
 

Twin Fist

Grandmaster
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
7,185
Reaction score
210
Location
Nacogdoches, Tx
LOL. I'm boring you? In the words of Steve Martin, "Welllll, excuuuuuse me!" Maybe if you weren't so cocky and arrogant, you'd be a little more receptive to hearing opinions other than your own.

But I do want to assure you that I'm not taking it personally. In fact, reading my post again, I'm not sure what I might have writtent that led you to believe so. You'll definitely know it if you say something that gets under my skin. Right, Twinfist? :D


giggity
 

msmitht

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
836
Reaction score
66
Location
san diego
LOL. I'm boring you? In the words of Steve Martin, "Welllll, excuuuuuse me!" Maybe if you weren't so cocky and arrogant, you'd be a little more receptive to hearing opinions other than your own.

But I do want to assure you that I'm not taking it personally. In fact, reading my post again, I'm not sure what I might have writtent that led you to believe so. You'll definitely know it if you say something that gets under my skin. Right, Twinfist? :D
Cocky and arrogant, eh? I don't know you nor do I care to. It seemed like you were being a little defensive, that's all. The fact that you have a bjj logo as your pic makes me wonder why you would ever defend XMA. In the 9 years I have practiced BJJ I have never met anyone who would defend it like you seem to be. I see no value in xma. I think that it is a joke, like most sport karate. My opinion. Sorry if it offends you.
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
22,167
Reaction score
2,349
Location
Northern VA
Yo, folks! We all have our opinions, and our reasons for those opinions. Let's try discussing them without resorting to name calling, OK?
 

Steve

Mostly Harmless
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
18,942
Reaction score
4,522
Location
Covington, WA
Cocky and arrogant, eh? I don't know you nor do I care to. It seemed like you were being a little defensive, that's all. The fact that you have a bjj logo as your pic makes me wonder why you would ever defend XMA. In the 9 years I have practiced BJJ I have never met anyone who would defend it like you seem to be. I see no value in xma. I think that it is a joke, like most sport karate. My opinion. Sorry if it offends you.
First, at my BJJ school, the subject of XMA has never come up. I can honestly say that I have no idea what my buddies think of XMA.

As you say, you see XMA and see the kids as something to make fun of. I see the kids doing XMA and here's what I see. I see kids who are in good shape, who are athletic and agile. You can't be good at XMA while sitting on the couch playing Halo 3 all day long. I also see kids who have clearly put many hours into learning how to do something well, indicating to me that they are learning a solid work ethic. I've never seen anyone older than maybe their early 20's doing XMA, so when I think of it, I see it as a youth activity, and I can't think of one bad thing about it. I could give a rat's *** if they practice "aliveness" (although in the context of their sport, they do) or if it's an effective martial art.

Here's the bottom line, and why I think that maybe you aren't the Coach of the Year you believe yourself to be. I see the positive traits that the kids learn, as I said early in the thread. Whether they're on the chess team, the debate team, the wrestling team, doing XMA or BJJ or whatever, if they're learning positive life skills and lessons, I'm 100% for it. Sportsmanship, how to lose and how to win, a strong work ethic, the ability to set short and long term goals... all of these things are independent of the specific activity. It really doesn't matter if these skills are learned playing golf, playing the trumpet, jumping around with a bo staff or competing on the mats at a sub wrestling tournament. What matters is that they're learned.

So, if it sounds like I'm defending XMA, please don't misunderstand. We could be having this same conversation about any number of youth activities. I'm simply able to look at the activity as a positive one for kids. And I'm, quite frankly, concerned that you say you're a coach, but don't see it that way and are instead threatened by it.

Finally, you haven't offended me in any way. As you say, you don't know me and I don't know you. I'm responding only to what you've written and how you've written it. You keep trying to personalize these things by suggesting that I'm offended or taking things personally. I hope it's clear that I'm really just trying to be clear.
 

msmitht

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
836
Reaction score
66
Location
san diego
First, at my BJJ school, the subject of XMA has never come up. I can honestly say that I have no idea what my buddies think of XMA.

As you say, you see XMA and see the kids as something to make fun of. I see the kids doing XMA and here's what I see. I see kids who are in good shape, who are athletic and agile. You can't be good at XMA while sitting on the couch playing Halo 3 all day long. I also see kids who have clearly put many hours into learning how to do something well, indicating to me that they are learning a solid work ethic. I've never seen anyone older than maybe their early 20's doing XMA, so when I think of it, I see it as a youth activity, and I can't think of one bad thing about it. I could give a rat's *** if they practice "aliveness" (although in the context of their sport, they do) or if it's an effective martial art.

Here's the bottom line, and why I think that maybe you aren't the Coach of the Year you believe yourself to be. I see the positive traits that the kids learn, as I said early in the thread. Whether they're on the chess team, the debate team, the wrestling team, doing XMA or BJJ or whatever, if they're learning positive life skills and lessons, I'm 100% for it. Sportsmanship, how to lose and how to win, a strong work ethic, the ability to set short and long term goals... all of these things are independent of the specific activity. It really doesn't matter if these skills are learned playing golf, playing the trumpet, jumping around with a bo staff or competing on the mats at a sub wrestling tournament. What matters is that they're learned.

So, if it sounds like I'm defending XMA, please don't misunderstand. We could be having this same conversation about any number of youth activities. I'm simply able to look at the activity as a positive one for kids. And I'm, quite frankly, concerned that you say you're a coach, but don't see it that way and are instead threatened by it.

Finally, you haven't offended me in any way. As you say, you don't know me and I don't know you. I'm responding only to what you've written and how you've written it. You keep trying to personalize these things by suggesting that I'm offended or taking things personally. I hope it's clear that I'm really just trying to be clear.
1. I never claimed to be the coach of the year(putting words in my mouth). I coach contact sports where there is not much room for showing off. All of the athletes I coach give 100% every class, or they try to at least.
2. I was not mocking or making fun of the kids or practitioners of XMA. You are extremely rude to "put those words in my mouth" and I am offended by them. I realize the time, dedication and skill that it takes to do well in any sport. I just think that XMA itself should not be considered a martial art. It should be called a performing/performance art.
3. I am not/will not ever be "threatened by XMA" as an activity(again, putting words in my mouth). As I said before I am a contact sports coach. What they do in XMA is like apples to my oranges. Yes it can be a positive outlet for kids. Yes it gets them off of the couch. The same can be said for any physical activity.
4. Again, you don't know me. I have been a successful coach for a long time (21 years). I work with ages 4-64. All of my students enjoy training and competing.
I could care less about what you, quite frankly, are concerened with.
5. The opinion that was asked for was "what do you think of XMA?" Not it's practitioners or the effort it takes to be good at it. Nor was it about what it takes to coach it which, by the way, takes an 8 hour seminar to get certified (I looked it up).

I gave my opinion. Stop trying to verbally attack me (and add words that I did not say or imply) to make your opinion appear to be the right one. It makes you seem kind of petty. I saw "Thank you for Smoking" too.

I agree on some points and disagree on others. Can we leave it at that?
 
Last edited:

Daniel Sullivan

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
6,472
Reaction score
269
Location
Olney, Maryland
I just think that XMA itself should not be considered a martial art. It should be called a performing/performance art.
This is the sole argument against XMA. It is at the heart of every disagreement about XMA.

XMA has such little impact on martial arts as a whole that I am always surprised that anybody cares.

Daniel
 

Steve

Mostly Harmless
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
18,942
Reaction score
4,522
Location
Covington, WA
1. I never claimed to be the coach of the year(putting words in my mouth). I coach contact sports where there is not much room for showing off. All of the athletes I coach give 100% every class, or they try to at least.
You did, actually, when you said, "It is a joke designed to lure your kids into signing up for another class/expensive program that will teach them to be cocky and overconfident without merit." Sweeping generalizations about the coaches and the kids that you wouldn't have said unless you believed yourself to be better.
2. I was not mocking or making fun of the kids or practitioners of XMA. You are extremely rude to "put those words in my mouth" and I am offended by them. I realize the time, dedication and skill that it takes to do well in any sport. I just think that XMA itself should not be considered a martial art. It should be called a performing/performance art.
I can be rude. That's true. While this often comes from having too little time to post, sometimes it's intentional. I won't lie. But comparing the kids who do XMA to snowboarders in chicken costumes is what I would call making fun of the kids who practice XMA. If that's not intended to mock these kids, I must not know the definition of the term.

I'm sorry you're offended, and maybe given some more time I could have been more diplomatic. While I might have been able to write it more nicely, I stand by what I wrote and have seen nothing from you that leads me to believe I was wrong.
3. I am not/will not ever be "threatened by XMA" as an activity(again, putting words in my mouth). As I said before I am a contact sports coach. What they do in XMA is like apples to my oranges. Yes it can be a positive outlet for kids. Yes it gets them off of the couch. The same can be said for any physical activity.
The specific activities can be very different, but the core values and skills being taught are all the same. That you can't see the truth of this even now makes me wonder.

That you chose to attack the kids and the sport so strongly makes it appear that you are on some level threatened by it. Whether that's because you think that it distracts people from your sport, or you think that it's in some way undermining you, I don't know. I can't even guess why you feel threated, but your strong opinions about it lead me to believe that you do feel threatened. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
4. Again, you don't know me. I have been a successful coach for a long time (21 years). I work with ages 4-64. All of my students enjoy training and competing.
I could care less about what you, quite frankly, are concerened with.
5. The opinion that was asked for was "what do you think of XMA?" Not it's practitioners or the effort it takes to be good at it. Nor was it about what it takes to coach it which, by the way, takes an 8 hour seminar to get certified (I looked it up).
I agree on some points and disagree on others. Can we leave it at that?
Absolutely. I'm glad you've got such a long and glorious tenure as coach behind you. Of course, you may as well claim to be the King of Scotland for all the good it does on an internet forum. That aside, coaching successful teams and being a good coach aren't necessarily the same thing... at least, where kids are involved. As I've said before, playing to win is important, but in life, winning and losing at football, in a TKD tournament or at the chess meet is small beans. The values instilled are what last.
 

zDom

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 21, 2006
Messages
3,081
Reaction score
105
This is the sole argument against XMA. It is at the heart of every disagreement about XMA.

XMA has such little impact on martial arts as a whole that I am always surprised that anybody cares.

Daniel

Not a big deal to me but I DO regret that all effort and talent is put into a sidebar performance art/sport when they (IMO) be much better off:

a) doing a martial art that would have practical applications

or

b) doing gymnastics, maybe making it to the Olympics
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,355
Reaction score
4,645
Location
England
I hate anything that has young, fit, flexible people in it that don't run out of puff and whose knees dont give way. I especially hate any thing that has high kicks, jumps and splits in it. So there!
 

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,273
Reaction score
1,033
Location
In Pain
I hate anything that has young, fit, flexible people in it that don't run out of puff and whose knees dont give way. I especially hate any thing that has high kicks, jumps and splits in it. So there!

LOL, you forgot to hate on them young flexible jumpy people, too!

:lfao::lfao::lfao::lfao:
 

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
31,385
Reaction score
5,712
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
It's like wushu.

Actually it’s like Modern Wushu.

Wushu is actually the proper Chinese word for Chinese martial arts, not Kung Fu. Modern Wushu is the stuff that is very much like XMA and modern wushu is far from good for you if you are in high level competition in places like China since they are pushing well past the limits of what the human body can take.

I hate anything that has young, fit, flexible people in it that don't run out of puff and whose knees dont give way. I especially hate any thing that has high kicks, jumps and splits in it. So there!

This also applies to Modern Wushu; young, strong and flexible...I hate em :D
 

masurai

Yellow Belt
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Messages
36
Reaction score
1
The way I see it is that in the end it will do more good than harm. I don't think it can really do too much harm to the martial arts in general because there are so many other things out there that are counteracting its effects. I know plenty of people that caught the MA spark when they first saw a XMA demo, but actually ended up getting involved in a TMA.
 

Daniel Sullivan

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
6,472
Reaction score
269
Location
Olney, Maryland
Not a big deal to me but I DO regret that all effort and talent is put into a sidebar performance art/sport when they (IMO) be much better off:

a) doing a martial art that would have practical applications

or

b) doing gymnastics, maybe making it to the Olympics
Very true.

I view XMA to traditional MA and MMA like I do graphic novels as compared with classical art architecture. Some of those guys and gals are excellent artists. They could be putting their time and energy into traditional style painting or architectural design, perhaps getting their work displayed in a national gallery or being asked to pen an important structure. Instead they are just drawing comics.

But that is what they enjoy. Perhaps later in life, they will have an interest in the more traditional arts. But for now, they do what they love to do and are physically able to do.

Daniel
 
Top