Brick Break Advice

[prm2770]

I will be testing for my 3rd dan Chung Do Kwan sometime this year and I want to recreate a picture that I have of my grandmaster breaking two bricks with a knife hand. He held the two bricks side by side in his hand and chopped it with the other. Has anyone here done this kind of break? I know I have seen other people do it but havnt spoken to them. I want to give it a go tomorrow and would love some pointers on what types of bricks or any other kind of advice.

BTW way my last break was 3 concrete slabs with a straght punch...for this one I want to break the bricks and do maybe 5 or 6 slabs with an elbow.

Thanks
Phill

 

[Earl Weiss]

Find out where your GM gets his bricks. Makes a big idfference.

 

[dortiz]

Last time I went to buy my concrete pavers the woman there who had sold many to Martial Art Schools stepped up to warn me.
She pointed out that now that they are shipped all over the place they are made differently. They still had what I have always used but she said when that stack runs out its all the new batches.
She had some and showed me the difference. They are a bit denser and you can see what she descibed as a glue like compound that holds it together. Instead of the semi porous nature its a very smooth finish.
I have not tried these but she was worried the schools would hurt themselves since they were designed not to break.

Dave O.

 

[prm2770]

Yeah I ran into that problem with my last slab break...I couldnt find the ones that I have always used and could only get ahold of some that seemed to be much denser...grin,bear it, broke em anyway lol. Just to be clear Im reffering to bricks as in the ones your house is built of, not concrete pavers.

Im not sure when the last time was that my GM did this break. The picture I have of him, he's probably in his late 20's he is in his 50's now. I didnt have time today to go up to home depot to see what they have. Im gonna try on Monday. BTW I plan on taking video and pics of me practicing. If I can I will post for you guys to critique and give pointers. Thanks.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Last time I went to buy my concrete pavers the woman there who had sold many to Martial Art Schools stepped up to warn me.
She pointed out that now that they are shipped all over the place they are made differently. They still had what I have always used but she said when that stack runs out its all the new batches.
She had some and showed me the difference. They are a bit denser and you can see what she descibed as a glue like compound that holds it together. Instead of the semi porous nature its a very smooth finish.
I have not tried these but she was worried the schools would hurt themselves since they were designed not to break.

Dave O.

Yeah, I've ran into many horrors with concrete and cinder cap blocks. Once there was rebar in them! Took two broken hands and a sledge hammer to finally figure that one out.. . Other times I've ran into cap blocks re-inforcered with fiber glass. Nowadays I actually get my blocks from a masonry company that makes their own blocks, much more consistent that way Otherwise, I tell my students to always buy one extra out of a new batch and break it with a sledge to gauge how hard they are and what's actually inside of them.

As for the bricks you speak of, I'm assuming you are referring to red clay bricks? Basically I would advise a similar trial run with a hammer, make sure they aren't artifically reinforced somehow. Although I've never ran into any red bricks that have been reinforced, it's better to be safe than sorry. I would look for a local masonry company that makes their own bricks, you can speak with them personally and find out what's in them. The less kiln firing the softer they will be, but obviously a masonry company wouldn't be trying to make soft bricks.. . But they may be able to help you choose the proper one.

Good luck on your test!

 

[Earl Weiss]

Lots of old time masters had the Brick Company use a "Special Recipe" for the ones they were going to break.

Also saw a recent "Fight quest" show in China where the guys broke red bricks. They used the common but often unnoticed cheating method.

ha is where the bricks are placed horizontalu so hal the brick is supported and the other half extends outward from the cement or stone support. They hold the brick down with one hand so it doesn't tip off the suport and chop down on the unsupported side.

what is often unnoticed is the way they hold it down, they actualy push down with the palm and wrap their thumb and fingers around the side then jsut before they chop down they tp the brick upward slightly so the back edge is on the support, and it comes crashing down onto the support as they chop down. You can ee a quarter inch or so of space created as they do it.

Seen other guys break river rocks doing thesame thing.

One guy was more clever. Had both edges of the rock supported, butone edge was jsut barely on the support anout a half inch above a cement surface He would strike at a very slight angle pushing it off the support on one edge and slamming it into the cement underneath.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Lots of old time masters had the Brick Company use a "Special Recipe" for the ones they were going to break.

Also saw a recent "Fight quest" show in China where the guys broke red bricks. They used the common but often unnoticed cheating method.

ha is where the bricks are placed horizontalu so hal the brick is supported and the other half extends outward from the cement or stone support. They hold the brick down with one hand so it doesn't tip off the suport and chop down on the unsupported side.

what is often unnoticed is the way they hold it down, they actualy push down with the palm and wrap their thumb and fingers around the side then jsut before they chop down they tp the brick upward slightly so the back edge is on the support, and it comes crashing down onto the support as they chop down. You can ee a quarter inch or so of space created as they do it.

Seen other guys break river rocks doing thesame thing.

One guy was more clever. Had both edges of the rock supported, butone edge was jsut barely on the support anout a half inch above a cement surface He would strike at a very slight angle pushing it off the support on one edge and slamming it into the cement underneath.

Although there will always be those who "cheat" themselves and those who they demonstrate their techniques to, at the same time there are those who do not. My Kwan Jang Nim doesn't allow us to use spacers, planed boards, or convex bricks. In the 1970's my Kwan Jang Nim held one red brick in his hand, against no other surface, and performed a speed break punch at Madison Square Gardens at S. Henry Cho's tournament. The brick more or less exploded, and I know it was a "real" brick.

That being said, I always see the parlor tricks being used on television, in demonstrations and at tournaments. That doesn't do the public any good, and it certainly doesn't do the practicioner any justice.

 

[Earl Weiss]

The brick more or less exploded, and I know it was a "real" brick.

That being said, I always see the parlor tricks being used on television, in demonstrations and at tournaments. That doesn't do the public any good, and it certainly doesn't do the practicioner any justice.

Well, sir I am sure it was "Real" . But I am not sure what that means.

Was it a common brick, a paver, a face brick, Solid throughout, te type with holes for the mortar?

Now, this is not casting aspersions on you or your Kwan Jang. I know nothing of either. As a general question, to help others who may be faced with a similar situation how does one "Know".

Materials are so varied, you never Know. Tested once in Florida and the head of testing advised that the southern yellow Pine was harder than most wood and and the concrete slabs they had were also harder and we should be conservative in our estimates. I reduced my numbers by one piece each and i was successful. Saw larger more athletic people try to break more and fail. The building shook with the impact , but no break.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Well, sir I am sure it was "Real" . But I am not sure what that means.

Was it a common brick, a paver, a face brick, Solid throughout, te type with holes for the mortar?

Now, this is not casting aspersions on you or your Kwan Jang. I know nothing of either. As a general question, to help others who may be faced with a similar situation how does one "Know".

Materials are so varied, you never Know. Tested once in Florida and the head of testing advised that the southern yellow Pine was harder than most wood and and the concrete slabs they had were also harder and we should be conservative in our estimates. I reduced my numbers by one piece each and i was successful. Saw larger more athletic people try to break more and fail. The building shook with the impact , but no break.

I absolutely agree that materials vary, no two trees are exactly correct, and likewise, rarely are two blocks the same. I am also not criticizing anyone that legitimately try to break standard materials. By "real" I mean a standard material, not something "special made" or altered. The brick I was referring to was a standard red clay brick, solid, no holes.

Again, I am not taking offense in your comments, but simply clarifying my statements.

 

[terryl965]

Just bake it for 12 hours and all will be good, breath and it will break.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Just bake it for 12 hours and all will be good, breath and it will break.

Dang Terry, giving away more tricks of the trade.

Theren lies a good point. Sometimes I have seen demos and just think I would like to grab some of the stuff they are breaking and try it myself. Some seem to get "Demo Boards' from somewhere and they just seem to shatter so easily. Went to a demo once and an instructor spotted me and said "I know, you guys use real boards".

For our testing s if i see someone show up with "Bullseye" boards, those are ones with a knot running down the center and you see a circle of the knot on the end, I won't let them use them.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Dang Terry, giving away more tricks of the trade.

Theren lies a good point. Sometimes I have seen demos and just think I would like to grab some of the stuff they are breaking and try it myself. Some seem to get "Demo Boards' from somewhere and they just seem to shatter so easily. Went to a demo once and an instructor spotted me and said "I know, you guys use real boards".

For our testing s if i see someone show up with "Bullseye" boards, those are ones with a knot running down the center and you see a circle of the knot on the end, I won't let them use them.

At alot of our demos we actually pass one of our boards around the crowd to show that they aren't cracked or fake.. . Like most martial artists, it's easy to spot the fake boards, watch the korean tigers demo team! Most of theirs are broken by the holders, not even the one's kicking it! They're 1/2 inch planed boards.. .

Easy bricks can be a bit trickier to spot at demos. Basically there is a fine line between making the school look good by ensuring everyone breaks (i.e. using easier breaking material), and making the school look bad because the crowd realizes you are using materials that a 4 year old non-martial artist could easily break. What we have to keep in mind is the purpose of the demonstration. For me, it is the demonstration of skill, and discipline that our school instills upon its students. There is no skill or discipline in breaking cheap/weakened material. I see alot of "cutsie" material done at some demos, which makes me wonder about what kind of school those demo's come from. What is inticing about a 4 year old running down the back of 6 people on their hand and knees and breaking a tiny little planed board? As an adult, there is nothing that demonstrates to me, nor does it make me want to join. I apologize if that offends anyone, I am merely speaking of my personal opinion.. . And you know the old saying comparing opinions with a certain part of your anatomy.. . (everyone's got one and most of them stink )

As for test, we provide all the boards for test, so that negates all chances of getting an easy board without us noticing

 

[msmitht]

Hold both of the "fireplace" bricks in your hand vertically. Make sure that you leave 1/4-1/2 inch in between them at your palm and leave them touching at the top. Right before you hit them open your fingers to separate the top just a little and swing away. The impact will, if you hit right, crack one or both of them.
Warning : If you hit too close to your supporting palm you can split open your hand. You should wear proper eye protection to avoid bits of the bricks from getting in your eye. I once saw a friend loose a tooth to this break. There is no telling where the pieces will fly to.

 

[jks9199]

Dang Terry, giving away more tricks of the trade.

Theren lies a good point. Sometimes I have seen demos and just think I would like to grab some of the stuff they are breaking and try it myself. Some seem to get "Demo Boards' from somewhere and they just seem to shatter so easily. Went to a demo once and an instructor spotted me and said "I know, you guys use real boards".

For our testing s if i see someone show up with "Bullseye" boards, those are ones with a knot running down the center and you see a circle of the knot on the end, I won't let them use them.

Many years ago, when I first started training in my art, a group of us went to a demonstration by one of the local TKD chains one night. Lots of fancy & exciting stunts and breaks...

After the demo, we're talking to a few of them, and one of the members of our group asks about the boards. They hand him one, and he holds it, then gives it a quick palm shot, breaking the board... and awing them!

I'm not a fan of breaking, as a rule. It looks flashy, but it's expensive, and way too many people use tricks like spacers, scored materials, and the like. And it seldom demonstrates much functional power... People tend to set up, warm up, practice, practice again, practice one more time, then finally deliver the shot.

Breaking does have a place; it's a way to test your weapons, and to confront fear of hitting something. It's a great confidence builder for people who are just learning to deliver force. I just don't understand the emphasis some people put on it...

(FYI, when I do break, I do a couple of things... First, I generally use 2x12s. Then, I seldom take "warm ups"; I set the holder, and then GO! Finally, if I'm using 1x12 boards, I generally do things like unsupported breaks... throw the board in the air, and break it while it's airborne.)

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Many years ago, when I first started training in my art, a group of us went to a demonstration by one of the local TKD chains one night. Lots of fancy & exciting stunts and breaks...

After the demo, we're talking to a few of them, and one of the members of our group asks about the boards. They hand him one, and he holds it, then gives it a quick palm shot, breaking the board... and awing them!

I'm not a fan of breaking, as a rule. It looks flashy, but it's expensive, and way too many people use tricks like spacers, scored materials, and the like. And it seldom demonstrates much functional power... People tend to set up, warm up, practice, practice again, practice one more time, then finally deliver the shot.

Breaking does have a place; it's a way to test your weapons, and to confront fear of hitting something. It's a great confidence builder for people who are just learning to deliver force. I just don't understand the emphasis some people put on it...

(FYI, when I do break, I do a couple of things... First, I generally use 2x12s. Then, I seldom take "warm ups"; I set the holder, and then GO! Finally, if I'm using 1x12 boards, I generally do things like unsupported breaks... throw the board in the air, and break it while it's airborne.)

I love 2x12's! I think when you start adding a bunch of boards to a break that people are holding, you are only increasing the risk of injury to the holders, but 2x12's offer a significant challenge to the person breaking while making it easy enough for an experienced holder to hold. Personally I like unsupported concrete breaks. I set them up on a pedestal of blocks, and put a cap block down on top, so that way I can lay several cap blocks vertically ( no space between them mind you) and do my breaks that way. It is more or less a speed break that way, since there is no/little resistance because nothing is holding/reinforcing them.

Again, it is all about the purpose you have for breaking. For me, breaking is a test of skill, power and technique. I cannot fully unload on a fellow classmate for obvious reasons, and breaking allows me to judge/demonstrate my power. Also, as JKS said, it is a great confidence booster for students, and it is a way of conditioning your weapons against a hard surface.