Any thoughts on a short clip of me shadow boxing?

[Oily Dragon]

In case you missed it in Jr High physics, speed IS power.

We were discussing accuracy, though, which is not why baseball players weight their bats.

And I know of no fighter of any kind who weights their wrists on the heavy bag or sparring. If you can find one, feel free to post it and drop the baseball analogies, which have nothing to do with any martial art or most other things they are used for.

 

[drop bear]

Thanks for the input guys. The way I am moving about in the video is a very relaxed form of myself; I sacrifice power, and technique, by aiming to relax my muscles as much as possible regardless of whether I need to use them or not. It's why my hands don't shape into fists, and why my arms look more like dangling ropes than anything else. I will post another video emphasising more on technique, and I hope you guys can provide some more of this great feedback and constructive criticism.

That sort of isn't how that works. Your structure is supposed to do most of the heavy lifting, which then is supposed to let you relax.

And of course you will see how his feet are always underneath him which is allowing him to move any direction he wants during and after throwing a combination.

And three dimensional boxing is a lot harder to deal with.

 

[User2021]

My thoughts are along the lines of these statements. But I would expand a little more.

When I shadow box, there's no difference between me shadow boxing and me actually trying to do the same combos in a real fight. My shadow boxing movement and strikes = my fighting moves in strikes.

I see open hands, and other movement that make me question if you could or would actually do those same movements in a fight. I don't know how other people train shadow boxing, but for me, anything you see me do in shadow boxing is something that you'll see me pull off in in sparing or competitive fighting.

My personal opinion about shadow boxing is that people often try to do too much in the beginning, Start with one punch shadow box your jabs, or shadow box a 3 hit combo. Start small and build upon, that. Speed is important but not that important in comparison to getting other things in order. Once you have to "other things" then you can increase the speed when shadow boxing. For example, once I get my combo working and everything is connecting, then I can start to speed things up in shadow boxing.

This is an example of me shadow boxing. I will work this technique out every day until I can go left and go right. The shaking of my arms is not habit. I'm naturally stiff in the shoulders so I'm always trying to remind myself to relax more. I often use shadow boxing to figure out things out and to figure out which combos can lead into other strikes

The speed that you do shadow boxing will vary depending on the focus of the training.

So you fight in slow motion?

 

[JowGaWolf]

So you fight in slow motion?

The speed that you do shadow boxing will vary depending on the focus of the training. You can't fight fast if you don't know what comes after a jab. So until you get your combos down pat then you need to take time to learn the combo. This is especially true for systems that have more than just a jab, hook, uppercut, cross.

 

[User2021]

In case you missed it in Jr High physics, speed IS power.

Mass is a bigger variable than speed in generating power. Hence why heavyweights move slower but strike harder

 

[dvcochran]

Mass is a bigger variable than speed in generating power. Hence why heavyweights move slower but strike harder

In the realm of human speed this could be considered accurate. As a rule heavy weights are slower partly because it takes longer to get their heavier mass moving. So there are diminishing returns on both ends.

Over the course of an average fight this is compounded. That is why you see many heavyweight fights end with fewer punches being thrown while the light/middle weights are still swatting.

Yes, you can play the "but it just takes one punch" argument but the percentages are not in your favor.

In regards to physics: mass = density x volume (m=ρV). Density is a measure of mass per unit of volume, so the mass of an object can be determined by multiplying density by volume.

mass = force ÷ acceleration (m=F/a). So speed (acceleration) plays a big part.

 

[User2021]

In the realm of human speed this could be considered accurate. As a rule heavy weights are slower partly because it takes longer to get their heavier mass moving. So there are diminishing returns on both ends.

Over the course of an average fight this is compounded. That is why you see many heavyweight fights end with fewer punches being thrown while the light/middle weights are still swatting.

Yes, you can play the "but it just takes one punch" argument but the percentages are not in your favor.

In regards to physics: mass = density x volume (m=ρV). Density is a measure of mass per unit of volume, so the mass of an object can be determined by multiplying density by volume.

mass = force ÷ acceleration (m=F/a). So speed (acceleration) plays a big part.

Speed doesn't really play a big part. Efficient power is so much greater If you have a lot of mass travelling, in that it can be surprisingly slow. The same cannot be said of speedy motions with little mass behind them. They have very little power

 

[Martial D]

Yes, I understand that, but it can also help develop punching power. If you combine both then shadowboxing with weights is much more effective then without.

That's an old wives tale. There is no evidence to support that.

 

[User2021]

yea, you can over do that and change the punch mechanics to much resisting the gravitational effects

the power of a punch comes primerily from speed and transfere of body weight, the actual strengh of the muscles is less important other than it helps develop speed

im not saying 5 kg is to much, just that there is a point quite low in weight terms where it can be

Strength of the muscle can contribute If you penetrate the target deeper (which requires muscling) . This creates a choking effect in which you stiffle the reaction of the target,and it can be more powerful than a snapping strike

 

[User2021]

Try hitting a heavy bag slower but deeper, and you will see that it is actually harder.

Or fast and deep with no retraction. Which ever way is harder than how you are taught to punch (for defensive reasons)

 

[jobo]

Strength of the muscle can contribute If you penetrate the target deeper (which requires muscling) . This creates a choking effect in which you stiffle the reaction of the target,and it can be more powerful than a snapping strike

how deep exactly are you " penetrating " it is a human body not a pillow!, I've punched a few people in my time, I've flatten a few noses, but never once have I penetrated, I'd like to see 5hat done!

 

[User2021]

how deep exactly are you " penetrating " it is a human body not a pillow!, I've punched a few people in my time, I've flatten a few noses, but never once have I penetrated, I'd like to see 5hat done!

Try it on a heavy bag, you don't need to speculate. Dig as deep as you can, don't retract, and really tense.

 

[User2021]

@Dirty Dog you can't disagree with math. Mass is a bigger variable. Throwing the tiniest rock at record speeds will not hurt you anywhere near a truck hitting you at 90 mph.

 

[User2021]

If speed (it's actually acceleration not speed) equals power, Roy Jones jr would be the biggest puncher of all time.. He was not the hardest puncher in any division he fought.

Nor was mayweather.

Speed does contribute but very little in comparison to mass.

Mike Tyson had both speed and mass (leverage) which is why he is one of the hardest punchers.

 

[Martial D]

p = m • v.

 

[jobo]

Try it on a heavy bag, you don't need to speculate. Dig as deep as you can, don't retract, and really tense.

your not punching a heavy bag though are you? , not unless your attacked by one, which does seem unlikely.

your pushing the bag, thats not a punch, it's a push with your fist, the bag will swing, but it will do that if you just push normally

 

[Dirty Dog]

@Dirty Dog you can't disagree with math. Mass is a bigger variable. Throwing the tiniest rock at record speeds will not hurt you anywhere near a truck hitting you at 90 mph.

I guess bullets just bounce off you.

Kinetic energy in an impact is expressed as
E=1/2M x V2

Mass. Velocity. I'm not disagreeing with math.

 

[dvcochran]

Try hitting a heavy bag slower but deeper, and you will see that it is actually harder.

Or fast and deep with no retraction. Which ever way is harder than how you are taught to punch (for defensive reasons)

You just made my argument.
Hitting the bag at a higher speed/velocity results in deeper penetration or simply a harder impact.
Make everything else equal and added speed results in a greater impact.
Take something smaller and you can easily make it impact ‘harder’ by adding speed. By a factor of about three, depending on the amount of change in size/mass.

 

[dvcochran]

Speed doesn't really play a big part. Efficient power is so much greater If you have a lot of mass travelling, in that it can be surprisingly slow. The same cannot be said of speedy motions with little mass behind them. They have very little power

Tell that to a micro meteor.

 

[drop bear]

Try hitting a heavy bag slower but deeper, and you will see that it is actually harder.

Or fast and deep with no retraction. Which ever way is harder than how you are taught to punch (for defensive reasons)

This is not technically true. And a mistake people make throwing hard shots. So you get told to punch through the target. But then wind up wasting energy digging your fist in to people too much. And your punches have less effect.

There is a sweet spot where you let the strike bounce your hand back.

It is also the only way I have found to make body punching work.

Or even watching hard hitting light weights punch.