Any thoughts on a short clip of me shadow boxing?

[JowGaWolf]

all your points can be summued as physics dont apply to me or my martial art

And all response to my comments about jab can be summed up as "You didn't calculate horsepower of a punch." "Nor did you calculate the speed."

After all of this has been determined and set forth. No one asks how much horse power their punch has. The only things they care about are.
1. Would my punch land
2. Would my punch cause damage
1. Did my punch land
2. Did my punch cause damage.

Your statement.

it SHOULD also cause damage, the last time i jabbed someone in anger it split his eye wide open (and he backed off fast), that the minimum to expect,

Just what I told you that people care about
1. Did my punch land
2. Did my punch cause damage.

 

[jobo]

MMA clips where you can see some slow jabs land and I"m not talking about the slow motion part.

Problem here isn't the video. The problem here is that you don't understand conditioning isn't fighting.

The reason I showed larry holmes video with him throwing slow jabs is because, some people like to try to personalize things So instead about the reality. It turns personal about me eating 4 jabs and some dental work.

Pawing Jabs

the slow jabs in the mma vid are where its in slow motion, perhaps they should put a warning up, not real speed

 

[JowGaWolf]

the slow jabs in the mma vid are where its in slow motion, perhaps they should put a warning up, not real speed

Not in slow motion. Reality doesn't change

 

[jobo]

MMA clips where you can see some slow jabs land and I"m not talking about the slow motion part.

Problem here isn't the video. The problem here is that you don't understand conditioning isn't fighting.

The reason I showed larry holmes video with him throwing slow jabs is because, some people like to try to personalize things So instead about the reality. It turns personal about me eating 4 jabs and some dental work.

Pawing Jabs

 

[jobo]

Not in slow motion. Reality doesn't change

thats 10 mins long, i made the mistake of watching the last one to find it didnt show what you said, so you just post another that may or may not, but probably wont support you anyway

state clearly what you think it proves and the EXACT time stamp

 

[drop bear]

thats 10 mins long, i made the mistake of watching the last one to find it didnt show what you said, so you just post another that may or may not, but probably wont support you anyway

state clearly what you think it proves and the EXACT time stamp

There are certain factors that make a jab work. It needs to be at the right place and time. It needs to be done without telegraphing and it needs to be fast.

The issue you have is if you go too fast on a jab you can sometimes jab to the detriment of those first two factors.

Making the punch less likely to hit than a slower but better executed jab.

So there are conditions where slower is better.

 

[jobo]

There are certain factors that make a jab work. It needs to be at the right place and time. It needs to be done without telegraphing and it needs to be fast.

The issue you have is if you go too fast on a jab you can sometimes jab to the detriment of those first two factors.

Making the punch less likely to hit than a slower but better executed jab.

So there are conditions where slower is better.

well clearly it needs to be well executed and it needs to hit them, well executed that miss are a problem, hits that don't carry energy are a waste of time

so can we agree that the best jab is a well executed fast jab that hits, in preference to a well executed slow jab that land, both of which are considerably better than a miss as you didn't co ordinate it properly or them moving as your jab was to slow

 

[Oily Dragon]

Tell that to a micro meteor.

Yes, it's true a speck of dust with enough energy can punch through steel, just ask NASA.

With respect to punching, accelerating the most mass in the shortest amount of time is the breadwinner. Adding weights while training might be good for muscles and calorie burns but you're not going to be throwing that steel around in a real fight. Right?

I'm guessing racing trains is similar, especially if they're made to collide.

 

[dvcochran]

Yes, it's true a speck of dust with enough energy can punch through steel, just ask NASA.

With respect to punching, accelerating the most mass in the shortest amount of time is the breadwinner. Adding weights while training might be good for muscles and calorie burns but you're not going to be throwing that steel around in a real fight. Right?

I'm guessing racing trains is similar, especially if they're made to collide.

I do Not recommend kicking with weights. Really hard on the knees. I cannot say for sure but I would think one could say the same for punching.

 

[dvcochran]

Like I said before it doesn't matter when it comes to Martial arts.
1. Do I want to have a quick jab?
2. Do I want the jab to distract or land hard?
3. Do I want to throw a single jab?
4. Do I want to use a jab to counter?
5. When punching without boxing gloves do I want land that jab on one knuckle or two knuckles?
6. Do I want the jab to start or end my combo?
7. Do I want the jab to set up a power shot?
8. Where do I want my power shot to land? Stomach? Ribs? guard? head?
9. Do I want the power shot to be close like a short hook to the body? Or do I want the power shot to land like a long fist technique to the head? or maybe I want the power shot to be a spinning back fist or an uppercut.
10. How do I want to drive power to my punches. From the hips? from the waist? from a pivot? from a pushing off the rear leg with heel down? from stepping into the punch? or rising with the punch? Do I want to put body mass behind the punch or momentum behind the punch? Or do I want to put both mass and speed?

After all of this has been determined and set forth. No one asks how much horse power their punch has. The only things they care about are.
1. Would my punch land
2. Would my punch cause damage
1. Did my punch land
2. Did my punch cause damage.

In competition and in a real fight, you can throw your best power punch miss, and get laid out with something that had less power than what you were throwing, all because you didn't see it coming.

All that is true IMHO but not really in the context of punching for power. Yes, jabs can be powerful but the ratio of knockouts from jabs versus reverse punches is Very low.
Your list sounds like Segway to the power punch.

 

[dvcochran]

And all response to my comments about jab can be summed up as "You didn't calculate horsepower of a punch." "Nor did you calculate the speed."



Your statement.


Just what I told you that people care about
1. Did my punch land
2. Did my punch cause damage.

you could weigh your arm and use an accelerometer on a bag.
It would not be super accurate but could be used for a baseline.

 

[JowGaWolf]

you could weigh your arm and use an accelerometer on a bag.
It would not be super accurate but could be used for a baseline.

and what would I do with that baseline?

 

[dvcochran]

and what would I do with that baseline?

Compare it to your own work to see measurable improvement.
With the accelerometer you could also measure speed.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I do Not recommend kicking with weights. Really hard on the knees. I cannot say for sure but I would think one could say the same for punching.

I use weights when punching but it doesn't affect punching power. Punching with weights serve a different purpose. There are also different ways to weight a punch as well. You can hold weights in your hand very small weight that isn't going to damage joints for the same reason that you wouldn't want to kick with weights on.

Don't use the dumbbells. Either use heavier gloves or weighted gloves. Because of the type of martial arts that I do I would most likely use weighted gloves. It won't increase your power but it will help with speed and muscle endurance. You still have to be careful because it's weight that you are accelerating and extra weight that your joints have to stop. I wouldn't go full speed with it until some join conditioning is done or slowly work up to the maximum weight that the gloves support.

My personal preference and what I actually use are the old fashioned kung fu rings which shifts the weight along the arms which gives you the ability to work with heavier weight without damaging joints. There are some other conditioning benefits that come with, so you'll get the most out of them. Downside is that they are expensive and they crash upon your bones so you'll have shorter and fewer training times with these weights as your bone and hands and arms heal from the damage that it gets. Good news, if you stop as soon as you fell bruises, the shorter your healing period will be and over all your arms will become stronger physically and your punches will be faster. It still won't affect power because driving power to a punch is a multiple factor issue that involves more than just the arms.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Compare it to your own work to see measurable improvement.
With the accelerometer you could also measure speed.

That wouldn't help me because I would still need to do all of that in the context of sparring / fighting / getting hit/ moving around/ taking damage / getting tired. DK Yoo teaches self-defense. He's quick and has the fastest punches and strikes that I've every seen. But that's about it.

In my training I will train speed but feel no need to measure speed because I don't rely on speed to always be the deciding factor. I have spared against faster people and I was above to overcome their advantage in speed with timing, misdirection, countering, and cutting off.

Think of it like sprinting. You will only be so fast no matter what the time the stop watch gives you after running 100 yards. The older you get, the slower that time will become. Punching is same way. So when your speed gets slower, then what do you do? keep trying to get get faster than your max speed that you had when you were 20? or do you use other methods to compensate for the speed lost.

 

[dvcochran]

That wouldn't help me because I would still need to do all of that in the context of sparring / fighting / getting hit/ moving around/ taking damage / getting tired. DK Yoo teaches self-defense. He's quick and has the fastest punches and strikes that I've every seen. But that's about it.

In my training I will train speed but feel no need to measure speed because I don't rely on speed to always be the deciding factor. I have spared against faster people and I was above to overcome their advantage in speed with timing, misdirection, countering, and cutting off.

Think of it like sprinting. You will only be so fast no matter what the time the stop watch gives you after running 100 yards. The older you get, the slower that time will become. Punching is same way. So when your speed gets slower, then what do you do? keep trying to get get faster than your max speed that you had when you were 20? or do you use other methods to compensate for the speed lost.

The same thing can be said about power in regards to aging.
Power is a somewhat subjective term in regards to punching. As others have mentioned there are equations to calculate (horse)power but they use known variables. This can easily change from person. But in general, speed, mass, and hardness would have to be considered. I feel the latter is a big variance person to person.
I suppose it could be plugged into an equation if you had some kind of known range for ‘punch hardness’.
Regardless, they are all likely to change as we age.

 

[drop bear]

well clearly it needs to be well executed and it needs to hit them, well executed that miss are a problem, hits that don't carry energy are a waste of time

so can we agree that the best jab is a well executed fast jab that hits, in preference to a well executed slow jab that land, both of which are considerably better than a miss as you didn't co ordinate it properly or them moving as your jab was to slow

Not if you are trying to get people to jab effectively.

Because they will mess it up.

It is very common.

 

[jobo]

Not if you are trying to get people to jab effectively.

Because they will mess it up.

It is very common.

SO........ an EFFECTIVE fast jab isnt effective as its not undertaken effectively, that makes sense

 

[jobo]

The same thing can be said about power in regards to aging.
Power is a somewhat subjective term in regards to punching. As others have mentioned there are equations to calculate (horse)power but they use known variables. This can easily change from person. But in general, speed, mass, and hardness would have to be considered. I feel the latter is a big variance person to person.
I suppose it could be plugged into an equation if you had some kind of known range for ‘punch hardness’.
Regardless, they are all likely to change as we age.

the problem with ' power' as regards to punching, is it isnt the best unit to measure or describe it, kinetic energy is expressed in joules is, however this obsession with ''power'' an expression of punching effectiveness continues, people want to use the term haphazardly and then get cross if you point out their error or god forbid ask what units they are measuring in

 

[jobo]

That wouldn't help me because I would still need to do all of that in the context of sparring / fighting / getting hit/ moving around/ taking damage / getting tired. DK Yoo teaches self-defense. He's quick and has the fastest punches and strikes that I've every seen. But that's about it.

In my training I will train speed but feel no need to measure speed because I don't rely on speed to always be the deciding factor. I have spared against faster people and I was above to overcome their advantage in speed with timing, misdirection, countering, and cutting off.

Think of it like sprinting. You will only be so fast no matter what the time the stop watch gives you after running 100 yards. The older you get, the slower that time will become. Punching is same way. So when your speed gets slower, then what do you do? keep trying to get get faster than your max speed that you had when you were 20? or do you use other methods to compensate for the speed lost.

its primarily the degeneration of the CNS that slows you as you get older, all other things being equal, of course as soon as you stop trying to move fast that degeneration gathers pace

if that matter rather depends, in top class sport it matters greatly, loose a 10th of a second off your reaction speed and you start looking very slow in comparison with younger faster athletes and you cant hit the fast ball or dodge the punch, its fine margins indeed

for normal mortals its far less important unless your up against the fore mention top class athletes

against most folk, a jab that arrives in less than half a second is going to be faster than their reaction (and movement) time against Tyson furry your punching air

that's very achievable, up to a ripe old age, if you actually practice fast movement and again, in case you missed it the last 20 times, technique being equal a faster jab carries significantly more energy coz science