There is a video too in the story.
http://www.woai.com/content/trouble...ht-club-uncovered/n3pj75XoU0uux6LSUg5SkA.cspx
http://www.woai.com/content/trouble...ht-club-uncovered/n3pj75XoU0uux6LSUg5SkA.cspx
Another 'Underground' kid's 'Fight Club'
- Thread starter Bill Mattocks
- Start date
Gordon Nore
Senior Master
At the end of the day, you just can't enforce or legislate against stupid. It seems that if these kids are over 18, they are out of the reach of regulators and law enforcement. On the positive side, they're putting themselves in the ring and not forcing dogs to fight instead.
Natural selection at work.
Natural selection at work.
Yeah, these kids are being reckless, and they'd be much better off going to a good boxing or mma gym. But when you rack this up against a lot of things teens and young adults do, it's pretty mild. I mean compare this to kids on drugs or booze, street racing, or what have you. My older brother was a big time mountain climber. He messed himself up pretty good a few times, and witnessed another climbing party get wiped out by an avalanche. I did hang gliding. Once I saw a guy totally eat it. I think he died. And that was all legal sporting activity. These kids could be going to bars to start fights and brawl. Instead, they are just sparring with friends. If you want the law to regulate that, where do you draw the line?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #4
Consider that if one of the kids (and they're apparently minors, they just claim to be over 18, no one checks ID) gets hurt badly and the parents sue the parents of the kid who decked him.
How would you like to lose your house and everything you own because your kid punched some other kid into next Tuesday in an unsanctioned boxing match? The liability is staggering.
I'm not suggesting any law be created to curb this behavior, but I am pointing out that it's not exactly without danger - physical or financial to the parents.
Nolerama
Master Black Belt
I think it's a parental issue. Kids, especially teenage boys, are bound to attempt stupid at its highest level. It's up to the parents to be more involved with their kids' lives.
On another issue, if these kids train for these smoker fights, then they're not out (or at least not out as much) participating in other teenage self-destructive behaviors and certainly keeping healthy in preparation for these fights.
There are a lot more stupid things out there than a backyard fight club. If parents are afraid of the liability, enroll the kids in legitimate MA programs that have an active competition circuit. Outside of the legitimate sheen and liability safety, they'll probably find that their kids still face the same risks for injury.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #6
Yes, I agree.
Shinobi Teikiatsu
Green Belt
At my school, some of the guys formed their fight club and they go to the train tracks during lunch and after school to fight. All the fighters there have to wear some form of protection on their fists and most choose to wear a mouth guard. They check each other for concealed weapons (like knives and brass knuckles) and have two of the biggest guys as refs, to make sure the fighters never lose control. A few of my friends have come back pretty sore, and some with the occasional black eye, but it seems pretty controlled.
Gordon Nore
Senior Master
I think that's the whole point. In a real gym or dojo, they'd earn their time in the ring or on the mats by working out, doing proper training and practising real drills. When people ask me if martial arts schools are dangerous, I point out that you put in a lot of time doing kata and push-ups. Thugs who just want to knock heads don't stick around for the real work.
Guardian
Black Belt
I'm no lawyer, but if the kids represents himself to be 18 and is not and what they are doing is not illegal, then yes, hiring a lawyer would be an expense and all, but I don't see a win for the other side in this. Just saying here, I know it happens, but!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #10
Getting sued and having to defend yourself in court is a huge expense and headache right there - win or lose. I've known a few people who got sued, had their day in court, won, and filed bankruptcy because they could not pay the attorney's fees.
Even dropping the issue of age, there's a liability nightmare.
They're on someone's property. Simple take down, land a little wrong on the neck, and one kid ends up paralyzed. Who gets sued?
The property owner.
The other kid.
All the other kids there.
And anyone else the ambulance chaser can think of and tie to.
Even when you're 100% in the right, it's often much cheaper to settle than go to court. And that means payouts in the tens to hundreds of thousands...
They're on someone's property. Simple take down, land a little wrong on the neck, and one kid ends up paralyzed. Who gets sued?
The property owner.
The other kid.
All the other kids there.
And anyone else the ambulance chaser can think of and tie to.
Even when you're 100% in the right, it's often much cheaper to settle than go to court. And that means payouts in the tens to hundreds of thousands...
You can sue anyone for anything. You're confusing a way around charging folks in a mutual combat situation with criminal acts with the idea of a civil suit.
In this case, there are plenty of things to point to as torts of negligence (flooring, safe area, supervision...), and if you can put a price on the loss -- you can sue.
In this case, there are plenty of things to point to as torts of negligence (flooring, safe area, supervision...), and if you can put a price on the loss -- you can sue.
Until they're 21, they are still minors, even if they claim to be 18. Fact is, anyone that gets hurt because of this stupidity, a lawsuit will most likely be filed. I sure as hell would not want to lose my belongings because of a few UFC wannabes.
If these kids really wanna do cage fighting, get some proper training, even though they think they know what they're doing, fight in a controlled area, where there are people there to supervise. I highly doubt anyone present at the backyard brawls is qualified in any medical capacity. At least in the ring, there are professionals who have the fighters interests in mind.
If these kids really wanna do cage fighting, get some proper training, even though they think they know what they're doing, fight in a controlled area, where there are people there to supervise. I highly doubt anyone present at the backyard brawls is qualified in any medical capacity. At least in the ring, there are professionals who have the fighters interests in mind.
sgtmac_46
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You're argument is more against lawyers and litigation than it is a particular activity......perhaps what is needed is a law to enforce the kind of waiver that would be signed, to avoid any potentiality of suing.
sgtmac_46
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Again, the issue seems to be the general danger of lawyers and litigation in our society.........not the danger of a particular activity.
It really illustrates where the real power and danger in our society rests.....and who needs to be controlled and restricted.....a bunch of men with suits.
sgtmac_46
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Again, the REAL issue always comes back to lawyers..........and if lawyers are the biggest fear in our society, then perhaps it's lawyers that need to be legislated.
As to young male hierarchical combat.........it's been part of humanity since the dawn of time........long before organized TMA's and the UFC...........if a group of young men want to voluntarily get together and beat each other bloody, who's business is it of anyone else?
The reason why things come back to lawyers, is because in todays world, you have extremely sue happy people running around. Unless we're talking about old school training, where the focus is on what works, rather than worrying about getting hurt, or where you have a group of people, who are serious about training, and know what they're doing, compared to a bunch of backyard UFC wannabes, who pop the latest TUF or UFC into the dvd player and then run out to re-enact what they saw, the fear of getting sued is always there.
I'd go so far to say that its even more of a factor, if the people involved are minors. While it may be a male thing, I"m sure of one of the juvy males, landed in the ICU, their parents would want some answers..that is, if they're decent parents and actually care about what their kids do.
Yeah, as a parent, I wouldn't want my son to be in that fight club. Many years ago, when my dad confronted me and my brother about our dangerous hobbies, he didn't forbid us from doing them. Instead, he made us get instruction, and do them the right way. Our hobbies were still dangerous (mountaineering and hang gliding, respectively), but at least we knew what we were doing. If one of these kids were mine, I'd make them join a reputable gym. Not only would it be safer, he'd learn to be a lot better fighter, too.
I can understand the risks and the liability issues. But how in Cthulu's name are you going to keep kids from fighting?
When I was in 5th grade or so, I got in to an argument with a lad in one of my classes. He got very irritated with me, then yelled "Pool doors, tonight!" then ran off.
Meaning...meet me at the doors to the school's pool (which was in an isolated wing of the building) and we'll fight. It was typically an empty challenge but not always.
This was a challenge thrown about by 10 year olds in the early 1980s. I don't think there are any fewer kids challenging one another today. If anything, there are even more of them given how some like to film themselves fighting and publish the fight on their myspace page.
When I was in 5th grade or so, I got in to an argument with a lad in one of my classes. He got very irritated with me, then yelled "Pool doors, tonight!" then ran off.
Meaning...meet me at the doors to the school's pool (which was in an isolated wing of the building) and we'll fight. It was typically an empty challenge but not always.
This was a challenge thrown about by 10 year olds in the early 1980s. I don't think there are any fewer kids challenging one another today. If anything, there are even more of them given how some like to film themselves fighting and publish the fight on their myspace page.
