Always wondered does this kind of strike have a name/term?

[Buka]

It's a fricken' strike. This is a position of the hand we're talking about, not a fundamental difference in anything that's even remotely important in any of our lives. JF tapdancing C, you might all want to take a deep breath and relax.

 

[K-man]

So you have actually done it to people?

Even if you don't believe me. Two other people here have.

I think you'll find that they have used the straight open hand variety as have I. Unless you are striking at full force it is unlikely that you will case damage. The variation I am describing is from the Goju Kai kata, Seisan (5th dan kata). As I said, it is a nasty technique. The reason I train it is because it is in the kata. I don't envisage using it or many other techniques that we train anytime soon because that is not the reason I train.
:asian:

 

[Hanzou]

I'm not really sure I follow your point. Judo specializes in sport applications to be used in a competition venue. Any classical jujutsu school competing against a judo school, in a competition venue would have to complete using the sport judo rule set. Thus the more dangerous techniques are not in play. So if a judo school, that specializes in competition defeats a Jujutsu school that doesn't specialize in competition, using sport rules...what does it prove?

By all accounts, both were competing under Jujutsu standards, since Judo wasn't a sport back then, and it was simply considered another style of jujutusu.

The point is that when it came down to crunch time, the classical-trained Jujutsu exponents couldn't call on their "deadly techniques" to win the match. Meanwhile, Kano's students were far more accomplished at utilizing safer techniques in order to defeat their classically trained opponents.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

By all accounts, both were competing under Jujutsu standards, since Judo wasn't a sport back then, and it was simply considered another style of jujutusu.

Are you quite sure about this? By what accounts are you considering and do you have any supporting evidence? I'd like to see the source(s) you're looking at.

The point is that when it came down to crunch time, the classical-trained Jujutsu exponents couldn't call on their "deadly techniques" to win the match.

What you're saying though doesn't make any sense. You can't use deadly techniques in a match. Or are you suggesting this was a no-holds barred match where the opponent could be killed?

 

[K-man]

This goes back to the reason why Jigaro Kano removed the lethal techniques from active Judo practice, and placed them into Kata. His Judoka went on to defeat the classical Jujutsu schools who were full of "dangerous" techniques that they could never use.

Kano sanitised Judo so it could be taught at university in Japan. The universities had a requirement that any 'sport' being taught had to have a competitive aspect. Hence Tomiki introducing Aikido to competition against the wishes of Ueshiba.

The RNC is given a lot of credit because people can actively practice it while training, and perfect the technique under pressure. Hell, I got an RNC off in class tonight, and caused my partner to pass out because he wanted to attempt a leg lock instead of being smart and tapping out. I'm slapping the RNC on actual resisting opponents over and over again. Needless to say (unless I'm in an extraordinary circumstance) I can get the RNC off in a bad situation against a very bad person.

RNC is valuable and in my opinion relatively safe. I still won't apply it to my students beyond when they grey out. However, even if someone does pass out, they regain consciousness quickly without any apparent distress. Other techniques are not quite so forgiving.

How often are you striking someone in the throat with this punch? How often are you damaging wind pipes and causing people to choke on their own blood?

Hopefully never. I'm not sure where the "choking in their own blood" came from. But then I don't eye gouge or grab testicles or stomp on ankles or elbow the ribs etc. either.

Then comes the other problem; If I'm applying the RNC, I have the ability to release it as soon as I feel my opponent go limp. Hes unconscious but he's alive, and unhurt. It's a very gentle way to end a confrontation, so you can use it in a myriad of ways and situations.

I haven't an arguement with that.

Smashing someone's windpipe isn't gentle in any way, shape, or form. So that marginalizes it even further in your arsenal. So you have a technique that you never really practice in class, and has an extremely limited use in self defense. That's going to cause a lot of martial artists to never use it.

Most martial artists don't even know it exists. Whether I use it or not is irrelevant. If what you are saying was to be taken on board I may as well give up all my arts and take up BJJ. At 66, how do you think I'll go? Did you listen to the Gracie boys talking about Boyd's belt?

Self defence has virtually nothing to do with fighting so we are back to where we started, 6 threads, 5756 posts, and 12 months ago.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

To bring this conversation back onto point (as much as it can be, given that the OP's question regarding the name of the technique has been answered), this is not a "deadly technique" any more than numerous others are. In taekwondo, it is called the agwison (which means arc hand).

Yes, you can strike the throat with deadly results. However, at least in KKW TKD, this move is also applied to other uses; Agwison makki; a defensive technique, applied to the wrist of the opponent's punching hand, Agwison chigi; a strike, which aside from the throat, can be directed to the area just above the knee cap. These are just two examples.

So, yes, Drop Bear could use this technique without the opponent needing a tracheotomy (I don't recall him specifying his target, though I may have missed it). I also suppose that if he was going for the neck area and applied the technique without crushing force (pulling it), the result could certainly result in non lethal damage.

The idea that this technique used in a means that can kill is a somehow different and more advanced/secret technique is illogical. I could punch someone in the throat with a right cross and crush the windpipe, killing him. My punch is still just a right cross by whatever name your particular style bestows upon it.

Honestly, the arguing that has ensued as a result of an innocent question on the part of the OP seems rather disproportionate, and seems to have gotten fairly passionate fairly quickly. I rather expected this to be one of those one or two page threads that would die out after the question was answered three or four times.

 

[Hanzou]

Are you quite sure about this? By what accounts are you considering and do you have any supporting evidence? I'd like to see the source(s) you're looking at.

Evolution of Judo Contest Rules
The Story of Shiro Saigo

What you're saying though doesn't make any sense. You can't use deadly techniques in a match. Or are you suggesting this was a no-holds barred match where the opponent could be killed?

According to the early practitioners of Judo, the duels and matches against other JJ schools were highly dangerous, and could lead to serious injury or death.

 

[drop bear]

I think you'll find that they have used the straight open hand variety as have I. Unless you are striking at full force it is unlikely that you will case damage. The variation I am describing is from the Goju Kai kata, Seisan (5th dan kata). As I said, it is a nasty technique. The reason I train it is because it is in the kata. I don't envisage using it or many other techniques that we train anytime soon because that is not the reason I train.
:asian:

Which I imagine would be with the second knuckles?

 

[RTKDCMB]

What is "the nose shot"? Are you suggesting that a strike to the nose has anything near the mortality rate of one to the hyoid bone?

Facepalms can be deadly.

 

[drop bear]

So yeah the web hand shot to the nose is the best bite defence I have come across. Gets them off quicker than an eyegouge.

 

[RTKDCMB]

A straight punch is less likely, but possible. You do understand that it's far easier for a 'bladed' hand to reach the target (the one actually under discussion, not your off-topic ones)than a closed fist, don't you?

A throat punch is probably more likely to be the result of a punch to the chin that slipped off and hit the throat accidentally.

 

[K-man]

Which I imagine would be with the second knuckles?

Nothing like that. As I said, the technique of the OP is fairly benign. I wish I had never mentioned the variation.
:asian:

 

[RTKDCMB]

Nothing like that. As I said, the technique of the OP is fairly benign. I wish I had never mentioned the variation.
:asian:

Can you show the rest of us the variation so we know what you are referring to?

 

[RTKDCMB]

In Taekwondo, it's taught in the poomsae Koryo, where it is used against the knee and throat.

Can you show me a picture of the technique against the knee? I'm not sure how that works.

 

[K-man]

Can you show the rest of us the variation so we know what you are referring to?

No, sorry. I mentioned it in passing and everyone jumped on it. I have said where you can find it. It doesn't need to be shown on an Internet forum. As I said, I am sorry I mentioned it.

 

[Touch Of Death]

A throat punch is probably more likely to be the result of a punch to the chin that slipped off and hit the throat accidentally.

Unless, of course, you now what the hell you are doing. LOL

 

[Gnarlie]

No, sorry. I mentioned it in passing and everyone jumped on it. I have said where you can find it. It doesn't need to be shown on an Internet forum. As I said, I am sorry I mentioned it.

I think a number of us know the technique you're referring to, and I think you are right not to want to discuss it online. Not because it is some kind of secret 'instant death punch', but because it has a very high percentage chance of causing a potentially lethal injury (if the intent to do so is there), and a responsible martial artist and instructor makes sure that kind of information is kept to a controlled audience.

I'd encourage people not to turn this into a public guessing game of potentially dangerous techniques, and to look up the form if you feel you need to see it.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Nothing like that. As I said, the technique of the OP is fairly benign. I wish I had never mentioned the variation.
:asian:

I know that one, but it was taught to me to show me that it was worthless against a superior fighter; because, that fighter will be to busy beating your a$$ to even notice, and you can't practice it on your friends; so, there is no real point in even knowing it. LOL

 

[Touch Of Death]

I will premise this with "I can't do it... yet", but there was some famous Roman General that could run his finger through an apple. So, the idea of secret death blows are stupid, when there are people running around that can do that! :hmm:
Sean

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

So yeah the web hand shot to the nose is the best bite defence I have come across. Gets them off quicker than an eyegouge.

And probably isn't a lethal attack that would necessitate a tracheotomy.