Nukite Spear hand strike

B

Battousai

Guest
From what I've seen this strike, done with the tips of the fingers, does not get the attention it deserves from students. Many probabily think that its not a real strike at all, or that it hardly does damage. Both of these opinions are wrong.

If a student has been taught a kata with a nukite strike in it, that student should be training to be able to really strike in that manner. This includes Pinan II, III, Gojushiho, and many other katas.

How to practice this strike? The basics involve a pot of something like pinto beans. Striking the beans every day for about 5 minutes. After about 2 weeks the beans will become non-optimum training. After that move on to harder materials like sand. These things strengthen the muscles of the hands. To harden the tips of the fingers, hitting a wall for a couple of minutes a day does wonders (hitting softly at first).

After a month or 2 (maybe 3) of good training with these methods I would estimate that most students would be able to break a normal sized board with the strike. Breaking a board with this strike does not take as much force as breaking a board with a fist.
Why? Imagine hitting a board with an object only slightly smaller then the board, say a square poker. Then decrease the size of the poker, until it is the size of a fist. Which size will take more force to break the board? This is why the smaller the board is the harder it is to break, the larger the board the easier. The less the surface area of the strike, the less force needed to break. The greater the surface area, the greater the force needed.
So as not to break any fingers, I would recommend hitting the board gently and increasing force over an interval of strikes rather then just hitting it as hard as you can.

It takes alot of training, but the nukite strike is a powerful strike that should not be overlooked by the student looking to make a lifelong investment into the martial arts.
 
excellent point battousai... thats one thing i have noticed with most schools in my area that they do not teach conditioning which im willing to bet that, that is the case in almost all schools... i think its more a liability issue...i feel that the conditioning part of training is just as important as learning the strikes... again back to your original post why teach a spear hand if you dont teach them how to condition their hands to be able to do the strike... another good way to condition your fingers and your grip is with a kim bag... for those not familiar with this its a small bag about 5 inches square made of duck canvas and you fill it with either sand or lead pellets and you can hang it up and practice striking with your finger tips or you and practice some of the tosing drills and catching using a clawing motion...
 
Hi,

I don't condition my hands beyond striking a heavy bag or makiwara board with my bare hands. I have seen too many good practitioners with arthritis in their hands in their older years. One, a "master breaker" by any definition, can no longer make a fist with his right hand, and cannot sign his name with it. Yes he could kill me with his open right hand, I don't doubt it, but is that really worth it?

The example for board breaking is fine, but you don't hit with your fist, you hit with your knuckles, which gives a similar surface area to the nukite strike. It also places the force of the strike on the marginally larger metacarpels, with fewer flex points (only the wrist) between the striking point and the arm.

There certainly is an argument for training the nukite strike, but where exactly are you trying to hit? As a generality, I would only use that strike for the eyes and throat, and that would be mostly because of reach issues, not striking power.

I do agree that grip strength is extremely important, but you can train that without causing damage to your hands.

Lamont
 
the main thing about iron hand training is that you have to work into it and you need someone that is skilled to train you in it... iron hand training is a slow process... just like say stretching... you cant just walk in and drop into a full split unless you have been working at it constantly... the same thing applies to iron hand training... a great example of a person is Master pan ging fu... the man strikes a steel slab i believe 300 times a day and anything less then steel is destroyed... but yet he has full mobility of his hands and no adverse effects other than callouses... it all comes down to how you train... in the case of makawara board training its great but as it gets to the point were it is easy begin to remove some of the padding and start again.. and continue that till you are just striking the rope or canvas on top of the wood with no padding...
 
Makiwara training isn't designed to toughen up knuckles/hands. It's designed to train a person in the 'give' a body has when struck. Of course, a side 'benefit' is knuckle/hand conditioning, but that's not its primary purpose.

Cthulhu
 
For striking with the nukite it can be done just as in the katas, to the diaphram. Besides all the other good places like eyes and throats.
Other good places to strike are the insides of the arm, all the pressure points around the bicep and elbow. These ones take more precision though, you don't want to hit a bone with your nukite.
I need to get/make a kim bag!
 
Battousai here is a link to asian worlds version of a kim bag its rather large and i dont like all the eyelets on it but it gives you a general idea of what it looks like and how to build it this one holds up to 8 pounds or filler. i havent bought one in a while they used to have one that just had one eyelet to hang it from the cieling with that which in turn made it alot easier to use for gripping exercises
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Originally posted by TLH3rdDan

the main thing about iron hand training is that you have to work into it and you need someone that is skilled to train you in it... iron hand training is a slow process... just like say stretching... you cant just walk in and drop into a full split unless you have been working at it constantly... the same thing applies to iron hand training... a great example of a person is Master pan ging fu... the man strikes a steel slab i believe 300 times a day and anything less then steel is destroyed... but yet he has full mobility of his hands and no adverse effects other than callouses... it all comes down to how you train... in the case of makawara board training its great but as it gets to the point were it is easy begin to remove some of the padding and start again.. and continue that till you are just striking the rope or canvas on top of the wood with no padding...
It was my understanding the Master Pan Qing Fu hit steel 2000 times a day. I agree that he has full mobility of his hands and fingers as does myself. I started iron fist training 4yrs ago by mistake. I saw the special on martial arts masters on tv and viewed master pan at work. I said, heck anybody can do that and it probably does not work anyway. So, i found my steel barbel weights (10 lbs.) and started to strike them. That was the most pain that i had ever felt in my life. After about 10 minutes of striking my knucles were bloody down to the white meat. Boy was i foolish. So, i continued to strike the steel after while my knuckles healed as a karate chop. Well, my hands started to get conditioned and after the knuckles healed in about 2 weeks; i began hitting every day 100 times a day. I hit a lot lighter because of the fear of tearing my knuckles up again. Today, i hit 1000 to 2000 times at least 3 days a week and with nearly no feeling of pain to my hands. I, know that i was lucky not to have really injured my hands. I break, cinders, bricks, etc. I also noticed that after about a year of training my hands started to itch very bad when i needed to hit the steel. My sifu said that it was a wonder that i did not get posioned by the weights and recommended hitting stainless steel. Well, i hope others will not try the stupid way i did. I also teach single spear, double spear, collapsing spear leopards' fist/paw strike to the neck, and throat, collapsing spear pheonix eye fist strike to other soft tissue target areas and collapsing spear dragon's head ( middle knuckle fist or cork screw) strike to the temple as basic circular striking hand motion studies. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
 
Originally posted by Cthulhu

Makiwara training isn't designed to toughen up knuckles/hands. It's designed to train a person in the 'give' a body has when struck. Of course, a side 'benefit' is knuckle/hand conditioning, but that's not its primary purpose.

Cthulhu

I always thought is was to toughen up your hands.......hmmmm.

:asian:
 
same here klondike... i mean everthing ive heard and seen on makiwara its for toughing up striking areas of your hands... also chiduce you were very lucky you did not have permanent damage to your hands after that first experience... thats why i recommend working up to steel... also having the proper herbal conditioning treatment helps as well...
 
DIT DA JOW. its what its for. i hit a sand bag 1000 times every other day and if it wasnt for the "old family recipe" im sure every joint in my hand would be in bad shape............respects.
 
you can also use white tiger bone bruise linement as well as iron hand calousing linement
 
absolutely. when i was learning the 108 mook yan jong the White Tiger did wonders for my forearms........respects.
 
Two things, first spear hand strike is a soft tissue strike. Meaning it should be striking your attackers soft tissue areas. I won't want to find out the hard way when I break my fingers trying to strike someone's chest with this strike. Second boards and bricks don't hit back, it is great if you can condition your hand to do this. But it doesn't make you some kind of bad ***. There is always a bigger dog if you look hard for it.

Bob Thomas :asian:
 
I agree with those who say the makiwara was not primarily for conditioning the hands, though the original ones surely had that effect nonetheless.

What do people think about using only two fingers in the spearhand and folding the other two as in a fist, or tucking the pinky into the palm of the hand, to protect the weaker finger(s) from being injured when snagged on clothing or some such?
 
IMHO, the spear hand strike is outdated in these modern times unless it is to the throat or any SOFT Tissue areas. I would not even remotely consider this strike in any other way. I enjoy using my hands. And lets face it with broken fingers its pretty hard to go to work the next day.
Id rather substitute a punch or palm heel instead.
 
I dunno, the nukite strike was designed for not only soft tissue areas but for the diapharm/stomach area as well, I'm not sure if you are defining these areas as soft tissue or not... Almost every kata in which the nukite appears the strikes are to the stomach area.
The nukite has some variations, what I've been talking about has been the standard all finger, or Yon bon nukite. There is the Ippon nukite, as in the Unsu kata, which in that kata is used to strike pressure points in the pectoral muscles (which a yon bon nukite can do as well), there is the Ni bon nukite, two finger strike, and the San bon nukite, three finger strike. For me, the length of my fingers make all of my nukite's Ni bon nukite's, my middle two fingers are a bit longer then the others. There is another method of aligning the fingers that would align all of them regardless of length (so that all four finger tips end in a straight line), this makes your hand curved. This curved nukite is used for piercing into the abdominal cavity, (whoever can do this now a days, I don't know, they have spent alot of time developing this strike!). This curved strike to the abdominal cavity is expressed in the Bassai kata. Most think of the bunkai of the technique in Bassai as a testicle rip (see the Pinan V groin rip thread), but because of the angle of the strike it can also be an abdominal pierce. I tend to look at it as an abdominal strike, makes the kata more interesting :) .
As far as snagging your penkie on something, I've thought of that too, it would hurt alot, probabily break the bone if done with lots of force and speed. Most every kata with nukite strikes have all the nukites as Yon bon nukites, so I just practice it like that, with my over long middle fingers making the strike into a Ni bon nukite.
Another variation of the nukite is the cool palm up version, which the Sochin katas use as a neck strike.
 
Originally posted by Battousai

I dunno, the nukite strike was designed for not only soft tissue areas but for the diapharm/stomach area as well, I'm not sure if you are defining these areas as soft tissue or not... Almost every kata in which the nukite appears the strikes are to the stomach area.

You probably don't need me to point this out, but in the kata that I know where there is a nukite at chest level, it is immediately preceded by a pulling down motion with the other hand. I'm not sure of the bunkai of this kata (as I've only just got interested in this aspect :)) but this could indicate the pulling down of the opponent's head and then striking to the back of the neck. I'm sure you could come up with some other plausible soft tissue region that could be manipulated by such a move into being at chest height :).

FC
 
Whats the name of the kata?
As well beyond being a chest strike, the nukite could be a stomach or groin strike too depending on the depth of the stance :)
 
Originally posted by Battousai

Whats the name of the kata?
As well beyond being a chest strike, the nukite could be a stomach or groin strike too depending on the depth of the stance :)

The one that immediately springs to mind is Heian Nidan. It's also in Kanku-dai, Heian Godan, Heian Sandan and probably many others that I either don't know (yet :)) or cannot remember.

FC
 

Latest Discussions

Back
Top