How have Movies/TV effected Martial arts.

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Kirk

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Don't worry, I won't post on this thread anymore ... you have my
word.
 

tarabos

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Originally posted by Kirk
Don't worry, I won't post on this thread anymore ... you have my
word.

lol...it's no biggie...but the fuel has been thrown on the proverbial fire now...haha...

we'll see if any "flames" spark.:D haven't seen a good flamewar in a while.
 
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Master of Blades

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Originally posted by PAUL
No S**t. We should have this thread locked right now.:soapbox:

I dont talk **** but I disagree about the Thread lock. I trust Kirk and I doubt he would say something like that less he has something in mind. Let it play out for a bit. :asian:
 
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Master of Blades

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Originally posted by tarabos
yeah...every thread deserves a chance...this one is going pretty well i think.

Thats cuz no one interesting has answered Kirks statement lol!! :rofl:
 

cali_tkdbruin

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Originally posted by PAUL

Will it change: Not for awhile. People like fantasy, and people like to be lied too. Too many people would rather go to a crappy MA school and have mystical smoke blown up there @$$ then to go to a realistic one where they learn what really works and what doesn't. Many people don't like the realism because realism shows how powerful you aren't, and how good your not. Many "martial artists" would rather go somewhere that makes them feel like they are good, and that they are powerful, then go somewhere that teaches reality.


You hit it right on here. It is, IMHO, difficult for most MA schools to go with the traditional, hard core approach to teaching the MAs because if they go the traditional way they would lose a large number of their students when those students realize what actual "old school" MA training entails. It's hard, it's tedious, you get grabbed, hit and thrown around, and you get bruised a lot. So a lot of schools find that they need to water down their curriculum, mine included. :shrug:

In order for a good portion of MA schools to stay afloat they need to water it down. You'll keep and attract more students if you lean more toward aerobic kickboxing/taebo etc., rather than going the traditional old school fighting MA way. There are students, BBs included, at my dojang who never come to self-defense/sparring class, never competed in sparring tourneys and are content with just doing poomse, one-steps and non-contact sparring. That's fine, and more power to them. It's because of these students that my school is able to survive.

But, what this type of situation has begotten are plenty of MAists out there who are Black Belts who think just because they're Blacks they can kick anybody's ***. Wrong. They're thinking that since they're BBs if they should happen to get into a bar room brawl they're going to come out ahead. Wrong again. More than likely they'll get their *** kicked. Not all of course, but, a good number.

Mc Dojang BBs will find out they are utterly unprepared to back their stuff up when reality socks them square in the face.

Getting back to the movies question, I like that they have put the spotlight on and made the MAs popular, but, take movies for what they are. Movies are fake, they're a good way to escape. It's just Hollywood... :cool:
 

tarabos

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Originally posted by cali_tkdbruin
In order for a good portion of MA schools to stay afloat they need to water it down. You'll keep and attract more students if you lean more toward aerobic kickboxing/taebo etc., rather than going the traditional old school fighting MA way. There are students, BBs included, at my dojang who never come to self-defense/sparring class, never competed in sparring tourneys and are content with just doing poomse, one-steps and non-contact sparring. That's fine, and more power to them. It's because of these students that my school is able to survive.

yes...quite right. it's hard for a good school to both stay in business and keep its moral foundation of teaching only quality martial arts. a lot of people expect tradition and knuckle push-ups and loud screaming i think when they sign up at a karate school...and a lot of people expect something more along the lines of a casual environment where they can socialize a bit and work at their own pace, earning belts and possibly trophies along the way.

schools do need certain gimmicks to stay in business. NAPMA, love 'em or hate 'em, is full of profitable business gimmicks. i'm not apposed to using them, just overdoing them and making them the focus of the school.

even most kicboxing gyms have cashed in on the aerobic kickboxing phase...it's almost foolish not too. and a lot of martial arts schools have "cash cow" type students. people who come in that are fairly well-to-do and want to pay top dollar for private lessons only. most of them are just paying for belts...some actually learn a thing or two....but they help keep the school afloat, like it or not.

when you're truly not in it for the money and perhaps run a program out of your basement or just have a couple students...then you can be as much as a hard-*** as you want to be. but in general MA schools have to give in to the ocassional "casual" student. there's no shame in it...just don't make it so your whole school is based around half-assed martial artists...
 
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Master of Blades

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Originally posted by PAUL
I agree. I was only kidding about an early thread lock.:D

LOL Backing down already! I expected more! :rofl:
 

Cruentus

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Originally posted by Master of Blades
LOL Backing down already! I expected more! :rofl:

That's IT!!

Lets fight! I'm Irish anyhow.....so get off my land, bloke!

There....maybe my blantent challanges will get us locked up, w/out me "backing down" :rolleyes: :rofl:
 
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Master of Blades

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Originally posted by PAUL
That's IT!!

Lets fight! I'm Irish anyhow.....so get off my land, bloke!

There....maybe my blantent challanges will get us locked up, w/out me "backing down" :rolleyes: :rofl:

Irish eh? Go drink some beer and leave us men to our games :p
 
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sweeper

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hmm.. as to the MA in movies thing, I don't like how they are shot.. I mean I know what comes up in a movie isn't going to be realistic in the least bit. I knew that when I was a fairly small kid before I had any notion of what martial artists did.. What pisses me off is there are no long shots in martial art movies (well is some but not many) This is the reason I hate jet li movies, they cut on every technique.. Also it's far to often that the fight scenes look like a dance more than a fight (yes I know that's how they are practiced) just should be more dynamic and more entertaining (like the matrix :p). As to it advancing MA? I think by your post you meant advancing MMA. In that case no.. If you want to advance MMA get it off PPV and onto ESPN. (and BTW one of the biggest opponants of MMA is John McCain... he isn't very lyberal.(by most standards))

JK if you think martial art is all about self deffence, can you tell me why most notable selfdeffence teachers don't make NHB fighting a part of their teaching?

Ok, I'm going to post for you the list of the UFC "rules" as quoted from http://www.ufc.tv/learnUFC/rulesUfc.asp (that's off the official UFC site), this is just so everyone is on the same page and no one has to go off to another site to get this info.

Now it seems to me alot of these rules do tend to favor a ground fighter, you will note that some tactics common in various MA are totaly out of the question, for example eye gauging as a distraction.. can't happen at all. same with small joint submissions..

UFC rules, as approved by the
Nevada State Athletic Commission - July 23, 2001

Weight classes:
1: Lightweight - over 145 lbs. to 155 lbs.
2: Welterweight - over 155 lbs. to 170 lbs.
3: Middleweight - over 170 lbs. to 185 lbs.
4: Light Heavyweight - over 185 lbs. to 205 lbs.
5: Heavyweight - over 205 lbs. to 265 lbs.

Bout duration:
1: All non-championship bouts shall be three rounds.
2: All championship bouts shall be five rounds.
3: Rounds will be five minutes in duration, with a one minute.
4 :A one-minute rest period will occur between each round.

Fouls:
1: Butting with the head.
2: Eye gouging of any kind.
3: Biting.
4: Hair pulling.
5: Fish hooking.
6: Groin attacks of any kind.
7: Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8: Small joint manipulation.
9: Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10: Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11: Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12: Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13: Grabbing the clavicle.
14: Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15: Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16: Stomping a grounded opponent.
17: Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18: Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19: Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
20: Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
21: Spitting at an opponent.
22: Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
23: Holding the ropes or the fence.
24: Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
25: Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
26: Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
27: Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
28: Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
29: Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
30: Interference by the corner.
31: Throwing in the towel during competition.

Ways To Win:
Submission by:
1: Physical tap out.
2: Verbal tap out.
3: Technical knockout by the referee stopping the contest.
Decision via the scorecards, including:
1: Unanimous decision.
2: Split decision.
3: Majority decision.
Draw, including:
1: Unanimous draw.
2: Majority draw.
3: Split draw.
4: Technical decision.
5: Technical draw.
6: Disqualification.
7: Forfeit.
8: No contest.

fouls that directly hinder a striker:

4
9
10
11
14
15
16
17

so a little over 1/3 of the fauls are directed at strikers.. this doesn't say anything about people who like to stay on the ground, it just limits the ability of people who prefer to strike as a means of attacking. and the limitartions on some of those dirty techniques also alter the way you deffend against submissions on the ground.. for me my favorite method of dealing witha strong ground fighter is small joint submission followed by pinching, with those rules in place that's out of the question, as are one hand chokes.. now I don't know if you would call what I practice (jun fan/JKD JF/JKDGA) a traditional art, but given these rules alot of what we do both stand up and on the ground is out of bounds in UFC. And if you think UFC is a street art.. go roll around on a sidewalk.. you don't have to do stand up-takedown, just do UFC style fighting on a hard un-even surface. do it in full street cloths (that'sanother thing.. shin kicks are not nearly as effective without shoes)..

Bottom line is to fight in the UFC I would have to change major elements of my training focus, yet to fight on the street I would not.. wich brings up another element.. if you fight someone on the street they can quite effectivly employ other methods than what you train against, in otherwords UFC style fighting can not be used as a scale to rate martial arts for street effectiveness because you can't fight against what you would fight against on the street. It's comparing apples and oranges.
 
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sweeper

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forgot to mention, I tihnk if you are looking for a way to practice a martial art so to better prepare yourself for self deffence than I would suggest doing something kinda like the dogbrothers, basicly just practicing all out, not in a competition in a normal sence because when you have aset rules they style changes to accomodate those rules, but go full contact in all the ranges you see as nessisary.. I guess that can apply to any art traditional or not, if you realy test things out to see what works and what doesn't than you will better know how to deffend yourself, you will get the benafits of MMA competition training without the hinderences. I think that is what alot of TMA practitioners talk about when they talk about training hard.
 
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K

Kirk

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Sweeper, great post. I've copied it, and saved it locally, with a
modification so that if I see the opportunity to post it in other
places, that it won't be first person (e.g. I study JKD). Hope
that's okay?
 

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