All kinds of requirements to rip students off! Is this normal?

[kuniggety]

By my estimation, he's not actually still collecting tuition. The OP refers to an annual payment. If the school is closed for 6 weeks, I don't see how you can manage to pay for the entire year and not include those 6 weeks - that's just how an annual fee works. Presumably (and it's an assumption, yes) the annual fee is to cover 46 weeks, rather than 52.

I was thinking about that too. I have seen/heard of schools doing an auto-payment for a reduced rate. Maybe it's because I haven't trained at a small enough school but I haven't seen any shut down like that. If the instructor takes a break then assistant instructors just cover for them for awhile.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I was thinking about that too. I have seen/heard of schools doing an auto-payment for a reduced rate. Maybe it's because I haven't trained at a small enough school but I haven't seen any shut down like that. If the instructor takes a break then assistant instructors just cover for them for awhile.

Yeah, that was my experience, too. If I go on vacation, though, there's nobody to take over. The study groups can continue (any student can marshal those), but there's nobody else to teach classes.

 

[kehcorpz]

Would it not bother you if you have to sign on for 12 months and then think okay at least I get 12 months of training for 45 bucks every month
which means if you train 4 times per month every single training costs 10 bucks and THEN you find out that the teacher likes to take breaks which
last 6 weeks and during this time you get no training at all?

And the 6 week break is only for summer. I bet during winter and spring he also takes breaks. THEN they should clearly tell you in the description
how long you actually get to train per year.

Stuff like this really pisses me off. And what also bothers me is that most websites do NOT even tell you the exact prices they only give you vague ranges telling you that the exact price can be discussed when you go there for free training.

Why not simply tell the people how much it costs in the first place? Why try to lure them into the school first?!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Would it not bother you if you have to sign on for 12 months and then think okay at least I get 12 months of training for 45 bucks every month
which means if you train 4 times per month every single training costs 10 bucks and THEN you find out that the teacher likes to take breaks which
last 6 weeks and during this time you get no training at all?

And the 6 week break is only for summer. I bet during winter and spring he also takes breaks. THEN they should clearly tell you in the description
how long you actually get to train per year.

Stuff like this really pisses me off. And what also bothers me is that most websites do NOT even tell you the exact prices they only give you vague ranges telling you that the exact price can be discussed when you go there for free training.

Why not simply tell the people how much it costs in the first place? Why try to lure them into the school first?!

No, because I'd just do the math this way: $540 per year = 11.74 per week (assuming 46 weeks). That's less than my students pay.

As for not giving an exact price, in many cases it's because there are options. My students can sign up for 2/week or (when I start offering more) unlimited/week. They can save money by paying by quarter or year. They get a discount if they have multiple family members attending. Sometimes I run a Groupon deal. If I put all of that on my site, fewer people will show up. It's an established effect (pretty much anyone in sales knows this): too many options leads a portion of customers to NOT buy.

 

[Grenadier]

Why not simply tell the people how much it costs in the first place? Why try to lure them into the school first?!

Because not all schools are equal. Some people who are simply looking at dollar amounts are going to automatically avoid schools that are even slightly more costly than the cheapest school.

You may want to look the experiences shared by others, when it comes to running a commercial school. I think you'll find such reading to be very educational and informative.

The easiest way to help someone make an informed decision is to have them come into the school, so that he can see what goes on, that the people are receiving quality instruction, that the facility is a good one, and that it's also a safe place to train. Web pages or phone calls aren't going to tell the whole picture.

I've had some people come in and initially balk at having to pay a bit more than what the bottom feeder of the area charges, but once they see how classes are run, how the students are getting excellent returns on their investments of time and money, and that they can train in a healthy and safe manner, that price difference becomes a non-issue.

 

[Ironbear24]

But I heard judo sucks for self defense. Does it not?

Who the hell told you that? First off it doesn't suck for self defense. It is very viable for self defense, and second don't listen to people when it comes X style sucks and y style is better.

That kind of thinking will not help you, right now you literally nothing about anything,you have to experience these things before you can even come close to an accurate and valid opinion.

 

[Ironbear24]

No, because I'd just do the math this way: $540 per year = 11.74 per week (assuming 46 weeks). That's less than my students pay.

As for not giving an exact price, in many cases it's because there are options. My students can sign up for 2/week or (when I start offering more) unlimited/week. They can save money by paying by quarter or year. They get a discount if they have multiple family members attending. Sometimes I run a Groupon deal. If I put all of that on my site, fewer people will show up. It's an established effect (pretty much anyone in sales knows this): too many options leads a portion of customers to NOT buy.

540 for the entire year!? Geez I would kill for that price. My place is like 1grand a year.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

540 for the entire year!? Geez I would kill for that price. My place is like 1grand a year.

Agreed. When I last trained full-time, I was paying something like $1,400 a year.

 

[kehcorpz]

Ok maybe there are good reasons not to tell the exact price right away.
But the first impression which I get from that is negative. If I feel being ripped off
then I also wouldnt feel comfortable going there. Then it wouldnt work.

 

[Ironbear24]

Ok maybe there are good reasons not to tell the exact price right away.
But the first impression which I get from that is negative. If I feel being ripped off
then I also wouldnt feel comfortable going there. Then it wouldnt work.

Do you know how expensive it is to run a dojo? I can show you some values from my business homework if you'd like, from my portfolio I made my hypothetical Dojo wouldn't even start making any money until the SECOND YEAR it would be open.

 

[WaterGal]

But I heard judo sucks for self defense. Does it not?

I simply refuse to pay monthly fees if you get no training at all for 1,5 months. This is crazy.

And the fees are pretty high. It's 45 euros. You train 4 times per months. This means every session costs 10 euros.
This is pretty crazy when you think about it.

Why is that crazy? Where I live, $10/class is pretty normal for a fitness-type class. I think the yoga place in my town charges ~$15/class unless you buy a season pass, and I don't live in an urban or expensive area.

If the guy is saying "it's 45 euros per month, and you still have to pay during the 6 weeks I go on vacation", that does seem like a strange way of billing, and I can understand why someone might balk at that. It would probably better for him to say that it's 54 euros a month for 10 months worth of classes and you won't be charged for the 8 weeks he's closed (assuming he takes a Christmas vacation, so another 2 weeks off). But that's just marketing - it's the same amount of money in total.

 

[kehcorpz]

The thing is that it's not even set in stone how long you actually get to train per year!

How long his "personal vacations" last is up to him. He may be away 6 weeks and maybe the next year he's aways 8 weeks and then?

Whatcha gonna do then? Change schools? You can't do that. You have to pay for the rest of the 12 months.

ALSO the stuff he teaches is his very own system of wing chun which means that if you switch to another school you'll probably have a hard
time adapting!

 

[Ironbear24]

Then pay month to month. That or make friends with some of the other students and train with them in the the sifus off time. There are ways around these problems if you are willing to actually solve them instead of just using them as excuses to not even try.

 

[kehcorpz]

But in this school you cannot pay month for month.

 

[Juany118]

Yeah, that was my experience, too. If I go on vacation, though, there's nobody to take over. The study groups can continue (any student can marshal those), but there's nobody else to teach classes.

Yeah, my school is small but we have assistant instructors, which is good because his "day job" has him on the road teaching classes and giving presentations.

 

[Juany118]

But in this school you cannot pay month for month.

Yes but most schools, while there may not be "teaching" allow students to form "study groups" where senior students help people practice what has been taught to date. Have you asked if such groups exist?

 

[Juany118]

No, because I'd just do the math this way: $540 per year = 11.74 per week (assuming 46 weeks). That's less than my students pay.

As for not giving an exact price, in many cases it's because there are options. My students can sign up for 2/week or (when I start offering more) unlimited/week. They can save money by paying by quarter or year. They get a discount if they have multiple family members attending. Sometimes I run a Groupon deal. If I put all of that on my site, fewer people will show up. It's an established effect (pretty much anyone in sales knows this): too many options leads a portion of customers to NOT buy.

Pretty much. My Brother in Law is an assistant instructor at a local TKD school. When I told him my school has two fee schedules $60 a month for part time (my current schedule since I work 12 hour shifts) and $80 for full-time he said "what?!?!?" That's cheap. I had to explain that the School is mostly non-profit and the Sifu got a deal on the lease for the space because the school is in the same building as his day job, a Consultancy he's the CEO of, then it made sense to him.

 

[drop bear]

Would it not bother you if you have to sign on for 12 months and then think okay at least I get 12 months of training for 45 bucks every month
which means if you train 4 times per month every single training costs 10 bucks and THEN you find out that the teacher likes to take breaks which
last 6 weeks and during this time you get no training at all?

And the 6 week break is only for summer. I bet during winter and spring he also takes breaks. THEN they should clearly tell you in the description
how long you actually get to train per year.

Stuff like this really pisses me off. And what also bothers me is that most websites do NOT even tell you the exact prices they only give you vague ranges telling you that the exact price can be discussed when you go there for free training.

Why not simply tell the people how much it costs in the first place? Why try to lure them into the school first?!

Seriously dude. Do boxing.

 

[Ironbear24]

Seriously dude. Do boxing.

But the gloves and mouht piece and headgear will be too expensive! They are ripping me off!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The thing is that it's not even set in stone how long you actually get to train per year!

How long his "personal vacations" last is up to him. He may be away 6 weeks and maybe the next year he's aways 8 weeks and then?

Whatcha gonna do then? Change schools? You can't do that. You have to pay for the rest of the 12 months.

ALSO the stuff he teaches is his very own system of wing chun which means that if you switch to another school you'll probably have a hard
time adapting!

Whining, griping, and excuses. Still.