A Student or Not?

chinto01

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Hello all. Have an interesting subject to bring up with everyone. The story may be a bit lengthy but hang in there for me. I would like peoples opinions on this. What is the criteria for a person to call themselves a student of someone? Let me explain.

We have recently had a black belt at our dojo leave us to open his own dojo and teach his own classes. The split was friendly and both he and my teacher still remain civil with eachother. Since leaving I can count on one hand the number of times he has since returned to the dojo for his own training. My question is then should he still consider himself a student of my teacher or not?

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob
 

The Kai

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If he is teaching with your teacher's blessing, still comes in once in a blue moon. He is a student, perhaps different from what you expect, but between the responsibilities of teachingand training his own learning will happen at a different rate from the typical student
 

thesensei

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From my own experience:

Due to a move, I am now on the other side of the country from my first instructor. However, although I have gone on to study with other people, I still consider myself his student. I believe (although I can't speak for him), he would see it the same way. I have not physically trained with him for 4 years, but when I get the next opportunity to be under his direct tutelage, I will take advantage of it. I have great respect for him, and he taught me many valuable lessons. I have made much progress since studying with him, but he laid the foundation! BTW, we still talk on the phone occasionally, and get updates on each other's training.

Salute,
Jeremiah
 
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chinto01

chinto01

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The Kai said:
If he is teaching with your teacher's blessing, still comes in once in a blue moon. He is a student, perhaps different from what you expect, but between the responsibilities of teachingand training his own learning will happen at a different rate from the typical student

Now let's add a little twist. Does it change if he went and established programs behind my teachers back and then told him what his intentions were? Also what if he has decided to train with a higher ranking black belt in our system more than he trains with my instructor. I once again ask if he is still considered a student?
 

Ceicei

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chinto01 said:
Now let's add a little twist. Does it change if he went and established programs behind my teachers back and then told him what his intentions were? Also what if he has decided to train with a higher ranking black belt in our system more than he trains with my instructor. I once again ask if he is still considered a student?

You say he is now an instructor of the new dojo.
If the new dojo is not a direct affliate (ie. not of same name/different location), then why would it matter if he decides to add/change the programs to serve the community where he teaches? An instructor would look to capitalize upon his strengths and the needs/desires of the community. If the dojo is supposed to be a direct affliate, usually the two dojos should be as similar as possible.

If he wants to enhance his training by getting additional knowledge from others, then he should be able to do that. His training is his own personal journey. Since he still returns to his roots by training once in a while under the original instructor, I would say he is still a student of that instructor's.

- Ceicei
 

Paul B

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If he did that I would say that's very disrespectful. That is no way to treat someone who "brought" you up in MA. Flat out un-manly.

But...he had to get his training up to yudansha from someone and I'm assuming it was under your Sensei. So he was*taught* by your Sensei..and that makes him a student at one time. Now I'm thinking he is a former student,no?

It's not too uncommon for people to do that nowadays. I seem to have heard this one before..hmmm

They think they have "learned all they can" from a particular person..and end up with a "higher up" who will gladly accomodate them for a small fee. They are usually better off sticking with their original instructor,but they want it all yesterday. End result is less substance and more filler material. Boo.
 

terryl965

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Of course he is a student of his instructor if he chooses too it is mainly up to them to decide but once you trained and reach a BB level with that instructor technicly you are he's student for life, except the breakup was to bearable for both of them.

Terry lee Stoker
 

arnisador

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Sounds like there are two sides to the story. What does the departed black belt say about what happened?
 
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jkdhit

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i would still consider him a student.. if he's coming back for training then there's a reason for it :p unless he has other motives such as trying to make his class similar to the school you still attend
 

evenflow1121

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So long as he is seeking knowledge from your teacher and your teacher is willing to instruct him then sure, he is still a student of your teacher
 

MJS

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chinto01 said:
Hello all. Have an interesting subject to bring up with everyone. The story may be a bit lengthy but hang in there for me. I would like peoples opinions on this. What is the criteria for a person to call themselves a student of someone? Let me explain.

We have recently had a black belt at our dojo leave us to open his own dojo and teach his own classes. The split was friendly and both he and my teacher still remain civil with eachother. Since leaving I can count on one hand the number of times he has since returned to the dojo for his own training. My question is then should he still consider himself a student of my teacher or not?

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

As long as he's still training under the inst., I'd say yes, he can still consider himself a student.


Now let's add a little twist. Does it change if he went and established programs behind my teachers back and then told him what his intentions were? Also what if he has decided to train with a higher ranking black belt in our system more than he trains with my instructor. I once again ask if he is still considered a student?

Is the school his own, or does the other inst. still play a part in it? If it is his own, then I see nothing wrong with adding whatever he wants. If his teacher still plays a part, then it would only be right if they discussed any changes. As for training with someone else in the same org...whats the difference? Again, if hes still training with him, even a few times a month, hes still a student.

Mike
 

still learning

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Hello, If you taught someone his martial art skills, that person is your student. When he leaves and start his own school(any name), The Sensi will always remember that person as a past student. My teacher will always be my teacher. and when that person decides to train once and a while(with his old teacher) he is again a student.

To be or not to be? a student........................Aloha
 

Sapper6

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still learning said:
Hello, If you taught someone his martial art skills, that person is your student. When he leaves and start his own school(any name), The Sensi will always remember that person as a past student. My teacher will always be my teacher. and when that person decides to train once and a while(with his old teacher) he is again a student.

To be or not to be? a student........................Aloha

i agree
 
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chinto01

chinto01

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Thank you all for your responses. I think it is great to see peoples differing opinions as to what an actual student is.
 
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