New anti Sine Wave pattern deliveries on Youtube

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Acronym, Dec 28, 2020.

  1. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    A middle ground theory could be that Choi Hong Hi considered the hole concept of SW patterns aesthetics, but that is refuted by listing it along his principles of punching and his various lectures

    It is curious seeing him refer to traditional blocks as "not making sense" , simply because they don't sink into them. I'm not sure how sinking into a block adds anything but excessive movement. It's supposed to parry an attack. Why would you raise and lower your gravity and then block? How does that make more sense then just blocking right away?
     
  2. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    No, not refuted at all. General Choi taught the "Cycle (Composition) of TKD " Which includes the aspects of Fundamental Movements - Individual and Soldier Basic Training, Dallyon- Maintenance of equipment (Conditioning) Patterns, Sparring, Self defense- Actual combat. Excerpting single element and critiquing it as deficient is a "Straw man" critique.
     
  3. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    To the contrary, there is an explicit reason. Sparring is but one element of the Composition of TK-D and Patterns another. No one does it say either is a substitute for the other or complete in itself.
     
  4. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    I know some, I teach some and had an article published in TKD Times on it. Yet, for an intense combat situation I find most overly complicated. It is likely I was dabbling in Alternate Applications' going to seminars with George Dilman (who sadly seemed to go off the deep end) some of his progeny, Vince Morris, Oyata and reading stuff like Bubishi since you were merely a gleam in your father's eye.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  5. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    If you are transfering the weight back while punching, the hole concept fails. That is what they do, whether the rear foot is placed down or on it's way to be placed down when the punch lands is irrelevant to the critique - it has the same consequence. And they do that even when breaking.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  6. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    TaeKwonDo, as you know, took out all grappling content in it's sparring format. Maybe that's why you view it as overly complicated. Things you never do tend to be complicated.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  7. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    I didn't say that either. I was however critiquing this one thing that you seem to feel has cross-over value and likened it to boxing principles.
     
  8. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    I believe he won gold for Yugoslavia in kumite back then, in an art you may have heard of called Shotokan Karate.
     
  9. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Is this an example, in your opinion, of excessive hip twist?
     
  10. Metal

    Metal Green Belt

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    Was that the instructor who sold you EKF gloves?


    Chung Do Kwan 청도관 - one of the first 9 Taekwondo Schools in Korea.

    I'd say it's best to take a break from Youtube every now and then and go to seminars (okay, not so easy at the moment), do some research via other sources and read and listen to others carefully. And be aware of the major differences of Taekwondo's basic motion and sparring.
     
  11. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    None of your business

    No need to try and denegrate me. While mr Weiss was dabbling with bullshido artist George Dillman, my father won European gold in Shotokan karate as well as national championship in Yugoslavia, the parent art of the style we are discussing.

    But I'm terribly sorry I wasn't conceived yet

    Wanna try and denegrate me some more?

    I also boxed, and sinking backwards while delivering the strike is the very opposite of sound boxing principles.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
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  12. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    @Flying Crane Excessive motions in general, not hip twist per se. He slips off his own center ( which is wrong in the pattern) by tensing so massively.
     
  13. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    We actually rotate much more than that, in my system. We do not tense up while doing it. But we engage a full-body rotation that is much more pronounced than that example. It is a training mechanism to practice with what could be called “exaggerated” movement, that helps ingrain the process into the body and makes it automatic. In actual use, the movement is smaller and does not need to be so exaggerated, and yet retains the power gained from training with big movements. In Chinese martial arts, often it is said “move big to become small”. This is an example of that.

    I can’t speak to what the fellow in the video was doing. But I am just adding contrast and context in terms of what different methods exist.
     
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  14. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Agree!

    I like to train my 3 punches combo in 2 different ways:

    1. Power training - each punch takes 1 second to complete with full body rotation.
    2. Speed training - all 3 punches are done within 1 second with minimum body rotation.

    Here is a good example of full body rotation. The weight is shifted from the back leg to the front leg in great detail.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    I can't speak to your methodology without any footage but the way he is doing it, he will gas very quickly in a fight if this is the muscle memory that he is ingraining. He is overdoing it tremendously and he is not in control of his body.
     
  16. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    I am sorry but you do not understand the motion, Raising and lowering the heel of the rear foot by foot by having knee bend doe not transfer the weight back / rearward, or at least it should not if done correctly the body should not move forward and back, only slightly up and down.
     
  17. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    What do you know of my grappling experience?
    What do you think of this quote: " “Before I learned the art, a punch was just a punch, and a kick, just a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick, no longer a kick. Now that I understand the art, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.”"
     
  18. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Your body has to sink back in order to put down the rear heel. It is humanly impossible not to do so.
     
  19. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    I suggest you watch the Suska video again and see how much his head and body move rearword as he drops his heel.
     
  20. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Have a look yourself where you chest is in relation to the space coordinates when you lift the heel compared to when you put it down. It will inevitably move slightly forward during initiation and then slightly back when placing down the heel. If it doesn't even do that, then SW is an even more illogical concept, which I submit is not the case.

    There is a semi-rational concept half way although even if the heel stayed up, I would not classify it as based in boxing principles. There are too many factors missing.123
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020

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