New anti Sine Wave pattern deliveries on Youtube

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Acronym, Dec 28, 2020.

  1. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Unfortunately not very good, which seems to be a trend.

    Sine wave is an up and down movement that was added into ITF patterns somewhere in the late 70s, early 80s to make it different from the Karate katas. It telegraphs the techniques and serves no no purpose other than to be different from Karate katas. It is not used in mitts practice or sparring.

    So this is a branch that does it the old way, but not very good. There is no hip twist to the punches and the overall form is mediocre.


     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
  2. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    I asked an ITF GM to post clips of pre sine wave and he said he would try and digg some up of himself doing it.

    I'm guessing he knew to twist his hips, unlike the gentleman above who simply extends the arm.
     
  3. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    First and foremost prior to introduction of the term "Sine Wave' which first appears in the encyclopedia we were still moving up and down, flexing our knees to generate power in hand techniques. We then called it "Spring Style" (Early 1970's) While the term is unique to General Choi and TKD making it a convenient metaphor to contrast with Flat wave (Level headed stepping exhibited in some Karate styles. and saw tooth wave, the concept is not unique to TKD, Many a boxing text describes flexing the knees / using the legs to generate power in hand techniques. Is it exaggerated and stylized in patterns. Of course it is but so is a lot of other stuff.
     
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  4. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Boxers transfer their weight forward and lift their supporting leg. In sinewave, the supporting leg is lifted, then put down, without any forward weight transfer, which of of course is guaranteed by putting down the supporting leg.
     
  5. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    I find it hilarious that you presume to lecture an ITF 9th Dan on how the ITF does sine wave.
     
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  6. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    The parameters are in the ITF encyclopedia
     
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  7. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    You're quoting instructions. He's telling you how it actually works.
     
  8. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    I am quoting how it's done. I have been subject to it under an ITF GM for several years.
     
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  9. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    The first punch sequences are a perfect example of illogical it is.


     
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  10. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    Suska is a great technician and athlete. Yet if you compare his performance to the ones in the videos with black background you will find his motions more exagerated and IMO excessively so, however this does not negate that may motions in patterns are exaggerated.
     
  11. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    Please give text volume and page of the encyclopedia where these parameters are listed. I must have overlooked it. Please also point out where it appears in the Suska video you posted.
     
  12. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    It's very clearly put down at :0:04, and he is doing it by the book. There is no weight transfer and the hole point of lifting it in the first place is nullified when you put it down when you punch.
     
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  13. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Here is early 70s pattern by jong Soo park. He does not lift his supporting foot ever when punching from a static position.

    If you call merely sinking your body Sine Wave, then karate has Sinewave too.

     
  14. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    The problem is Acronym reads or views stuff on the net and thinks it's all accurate. I find a lot of people draw erroneous conclusions as to when and why SW as a term versus as a movement was introduced because they (as I was) are progeny of Pioneers who had the "Level Headed " Karate / Tang Soo do method of moving . Many of those progeny may not have learned that was not how the system had them moving until long after it was introduced. Something hard to appreciate now in the internet and video generation. In the 1970's VHS / Beta Max was not really available and private internet non existent. So, many were late to update their techniques and assumed that when they were introduced to it this was something new. . The difference between Acronym and I is he reads peoples opinions as to what they think happened and I lived it.
     
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  15. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    So forms world champion Suska is doing it wrong when he puts his supporting foot down when punching in the clip I posted?
     
  16. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    I am acquainted with GM Park . Was at Several IICs where he as present. Great Guy. Great athlete. CDK product. What you see in the old video is a result of the CDK roots.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
  17. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    :04 is a stationary - non stepping punch - Do San #2. He flexes the knees and lifts the heel of the rear foot to permit this flex of the rear leg. Is that heel lift what you refer to as "Lifting the supporting leg" ? Further it is not so much a weight transfer thing as using the knee flex to allow you to employ the musculature of the legs to generate power in hand techniques just as boxers do. I knowing some parts of the text there is mention of weight transfer / change to generate power but that is only one factor.
     
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  18. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Yes it is, and it doesn't make sense if you then drop it when you punch. You made the claim that boxers do the same. They do not put the rear foot down when punching.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
  19. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    I am acquainted with GM Park . WAs at Several IICs where he as present. Great Guy. Great athlete. CDK product. What you see in the old video is a result of the CDK roots.

    I don't know what CDK stands for but my point was that he was indeed exhibiting the old school mechanics in the early 70s, a time when you claim the shift had come.
     
  20. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    And yes, Jong Soo park is a great TaeKwonDo athlete and a favorite of mine. Although I would put a young
    Chang Keun Choi above Jong Soo Park.123
     

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