New anti Sine Wave pattern deliveries on Youtube

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Acronym, Dec 28, 2020.

  1. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Here is a TAGB member discussing the split from ITF and how the ITF changed since that time

    Worth a watch for those wanting to learn more about TaeKwonDo


     
  2. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    I love the anti Olympic TKD attitude "does not want to be associated with them". Hard core!:D
     
  3. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Based on your interpretation of a YouTube video.
     
  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    You're pivoting this to an argument about what is/is not in boxing. I thought you were making an angry point about TKD?
     
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  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    um..........
     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Transfer of momentum to the opponent's head is what does that. It can be done with your weight primarily on your rear leg.
     
  7. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    It's nowhere near the power it would have been if it's on your rear leg. You are basically dependent on the actual step-in to generate the force, rather than your entire body driving into the target.

    Note that I am not arguing for the boxing punch over Karate, just saying that if you are looking for power, boxing is the way to go.
     
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  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Boxers can also punch with power without having to move their weight over (or beyond) their front foot. That longer weight transfer is often because of the range needed.
     
  9. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    They have other shots such as the jab, which is not a power shot in the scoring precisely because it's just an arm and hip twist. It's called a power jab if you push off the back foot for the reason of weight transfer.

    The travel path of the reverse punch in Karate is not shorter than the boxing straight right either. It will basically come down to which one you have learned to throw. If you can throw them both, the one you feel more comfortable with.

    For my money, in self defense, the karate reverse punch can be effective for a surprise body shot (especially since guard and head movement in karate competitions is questionable). The boxing straight right at full force to the body makes less sense to me, and it is usually not thrown from an orthodox position at full power.

    Hooking punches in boxing are more suited for body shots, but those require close range, which you may not want.
     
  10. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    Sir, you are confusing 2 different things. The heel is raised and the knee flexed to enable the legs to facilitate power in hand techniques. This helps the arm extend forcefully forward. Placing the heel down as the fist reaches full extension is of little import since the power has already been generated and the purpose of doing this for patterns is to resume the Walking stance which is designed for stability to the front and rear. This is the kinetic llnking principal. The fist has already made contact before the heel is fully set down. National Geographics Fight Science kinetic linking - YouTube
     
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  11. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    Well, yes and no. Lifting the rear heel in boxing also gives you greater reach. Dropping it back down may or may not be done in order to move the head back. You seem to feel keeping the rear foot on the ball of the foot is essential to power generation. Many a technique can be done in different ways depending on varous factors. Which way is "Better" depends on those factors. Placing the heel back down is to resume the stable walking stance . Will it lessen the reach? Quite possibly. No one should ever think that pattern motions directly translate to "Sparring" , nor should they think Sparring directly translates to Combat.
     
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  12. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    I will refer you to one of the encyclopedias:

    Tkd Volume 3

    "The heel of the rear foot should be raised slightly off the ground at the beginning of the motion and placed firmly on the ground at the moment of impact"
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
  13. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    The burning point isn't the reach, it's that the weight is being transferred back when it's supposed to transfer forward. But of course that's just the tip of the iceberg. The bigger issue is that there is no forward lean so the weight isn't traveling anywhere, it's just going up and down.

    I might also add that in boxing, the heal is raised and stays raised, regardless if you are shadow boxing or sparring. Forms relate to sparring in boxing, instead of being counter to them
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
  14. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    Sir, would you please elaborate on this statement? I would like to hear your follow up before I frame any response.
     
  15. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    There's a saying in Chinese, be careful what you wish for.

    I asked for a hip twist and i got it in spades :).

    This delivery is so tensed that I shiver.

     
  16. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    There's no reson why they shouldn't, and the encyclopedias parameters for punching are based the mechanics of the forms. So a fair assumption is that Choi considered the form mechanics to override the sparring mechanics when applied for combat/self defence
     
  17. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    No one should ever think that pattern motions directly translate to "Sparring" , nor should they think Sparring directly translates to Combat.

    Naturally I cannot speak to every TMA system. So I will address how it is in the Chang Hon system. And my albeit limited observation of other pattern performances. There is an aesthetic component to patterns. None of that aesthetic element is relevant to Sparring or combat. Certainly patterns can develop traits that are applicable to Sparring or combat just as drills like hitting a peed bag or Jumping rope can help develop boxing skills. Sparring has rules. Most sparring has a goal of scoring points and possibly knocking out or submitting an opponent. Points are irrelevant in combat. Goals are to survive or decimate the adversary. While there is certainly an overlap the optimal training concentrates on the objective. I would not expect a Pro MMA athlete to spend a lot of time doing patterns.
     
  18. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    Sir, your assumption is mistaken . I will have to locate it in the text and get back to you but there is a place where he addresses "Standard" methods for performing techniques and adaptation for situations. It is difficult to comprehend that you would think he would really consider punching with pulling the opposite hand to the to be the overriding standard for combat.
     
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  19. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    So you don't know the applications of withdrawing with the other hand?

    Why is it difficult to comprehend that I have that interpretation, when the principles for punching outlined are Sine Wave proper mechanics.
     
  20. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Whenever I've seen black belt do breaking with SW, they place the heel down when striking as well. It's clearly done more harm than good, and I'm convinced this is based on a misconception from the person responsible for it, rather than an easthetical decision.123
     

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