Your Thoughts on "Flash"?

[Msby]

By flash, I mean the jumping, flipping and spinning moves that are usually seen in movies and have stretch the term "Martial" to it's very limit. Spinning 720 degrees and hook kicking someone COULD happen, but it's very risky.
It seems when "flash" is mentioned on this forum, it seems that people associate it with Extreme Martial Arts (or XMA). I personally think that this is a bit of a misnomer as most of the "forms" performed are basically just about trying to look the best.

However, there's another mindset out there on this. People who practice what they call "Tricking". It's an activity that combines flashy martial arts moves with elements of breakdancing and gymnastics. Tricking is basically about trying to push the human body to it's limit, and essentially giving gravity the boot! (and looking cool of course )

If you were to watch a performing tricker and a performing XMAist, the main difference would be the tricker doesn't wear a "uniform" and doesn't make drawn out screams (not gonna call those kiaps).

Basically, XMA is actually a brand name started by someone to commercialize Tricking. But most trickers are just buddies who get together to test themselves.

My question is this, what do you think of the Tricking community that rarely gets mentioned? The ones that DON'T promote these tricks to be a form of martial arts.

PS: I consider myself a part of the tricking group. My TKD practice and my tricking practice are two separate things.

 

[DeLamar.J]

I think it makes martial arts look bad. I don't know about every one else, but when I'm watching the whole XMA thing, it seem those guys are trying to insinuate to the crowd that what they are doing is actually real martial arts. It's a very vulgar display of very little martial talent.
All the bowing and prayer type of movements, right before a display of flash, seems like arrogance disguised as humbleness. In my opinion it's gymnastics with very little martial arts involved at all, with the primary objective to "look cooler" than the other guy.

 

[suicide]

i think its awesome the way they move cant wait to they blend there xma into the mma that way will probably see one of them 720 kicks and flips %-}

 

[Omar B]

Oh, I thought this topic was about the DC superhero The Flash, one of my favorites.

But since this is not about him I'll address that. I think "flash" makes the martial arts look bad. People have the wrong impression of what it is we do, karateka do no fly through the air, or at least I don't. Many of the moves you see practiced by XMA may look pretty, but that's all it is, some fancy French circus act mixed with what could have once been interpreted as a strike or block but having no application to a real fight and therefore useless.

I xan also see how it can hurt a Sensei's bottom line at his dojo if the uninitiated comes in after watching the XMA antics of the Power Rangers or any number of other media depictions of the martial art and be turned off at seeing an authentic class.

 

[seasoned]

I can't teach everyone the flash, but I can teach everyone a good solid front kick to the nads. :asian:

 

[suicide]

man if some fighter flew through the air on the street or inside the octagon and actually executed a strike ...

its probably just a matter of time before its done ( somewhere along the lines of capoera )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWz6ve9TpsQ&feature=related

 

[searcher]

I have dabbled with the flashy techniques in the past and I can say that they are not for me.

I used to like to see a little bit used in creative forms competitions, but now that they have extreme and tricking competitons, I have lost all interest. I, for one, am tryign to get back to the "old" way of doing things. Hardcore sparring with little equipment mixed with lots of bruises and some bleeding. Not much use of flashy techniques in my arena.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Being a practitioner of the JSA’s, whenever I see anyone twirl, spin or shorten up a Japanese sword, I know that they have no idea as to what the JSA are about. In Kenjitsu, Jodo or Kendo any of those moves would get you destroyed before you even realized what was happening. Your opponent would be on you faster then a fat kid on a Smartie.

 

[Msby]

My question is this, what do you think of the Tricking community that rarely gets mentioned? The ones that DON'T promote these tricks to be a form of martial arts.

I agree with what's been said so far, it's just that no one really touched on THAT question. :uhyeah:

 

[Bruno@MT]

Being a practitioner of the JSA’s, whenever I see anyone twirl, spin or shorten up a Japanese sword, I know that they have no idea as to what the JSA are about. In Kenjitsu, Jodo or Kendo any of those moves would get you destroyed before you even realized what was happening. Your opponent would be on you faster then a fat kid on a Smartie.

Yep. It's not about looking good, it's about making the other one look dead.

I think it makes martial arts look bad. I don't know about every one else, but when I'm watching the whole XMA thing, it seem those guys are trying to insinuate to the crowd that what they are doing is actually real martial arts. It's a very vulgar display of very little martial talent.
All the bowing and prayer type of movements, right before a display of flash, seems like arrogance disguised as humbleness. In my opinion it's gymnastics with very little martial arts involved at all, with the primary objective to "look cooler" than the other guy.

+1

i think its awesome the way they move cant wait to they blend there xma into the mma that way will probably see one of them 720 kicks and flips %-}

You won't see any of that in an MMA ring. Try any of those 720 kicks or somersault kicks against an actual fighter, and you will be taken / beaten / kicked down in a sec.

 

[suicide]

i come from the kung fu theatre days guys : flying in the sky , kicking and punching , creative wardrobe , white long hair , long mustaches , flying guilitines , monkey style , drunken style etc etc - man thats all me right there - so if these guys can pull it off ( xma ) its all to the good , when i watched those movies even though i knew it was ent. i never felt like it wasnt MA most of those guys were longtime MAs - its like jet li he gots movies were all those things happen : tai chi master or red dragon and it dosent bother me i dont worry about it being fake or not - its still part of the martial arts world and it dont make martial arts look weak at all ! if anything it brings people closer to the ma , when i was a lil kid and used to ask my dad if he would put me in karate school he would say get the F out of here we aint got money for that B.S. - the only thing that stayed with me were those movies and the techniques i seen in them - the real world is the real world yes i know - but the xma display in a way its like taking it back to the ol´school.

 

[Big Don]

It looks like a really good way to get the crap kicked out of you. Sorta like Indiana Jones versus the HUGE Arab swordsman in Raiders of the Lost Ark...

 

[Kwan Jang]

I have seen Tankston land a 720 in both point sparring and in kickboxing. I have seen Kim Do KO an opponent with a webster (axe kick out of a front flip). I am not saying these aren't high risk, low probability strikes, but neither are they impossible to land if set up properly. For myself, even though I have done 720's, you won't be seeing ME use it in competition. Still, I like being a guy as big as I am and in my mid-forties who can still do these.

I see it as just another way of pushing the physical envelope in the martial arts. I don't see it as any type of replacement or substitute for combative skills, but it's fine for "dessert" if the student's have already "cleaned their plate" with the nutrition of good solid training. Many of my teen and young adult students will stay after class and work on their "tricking". If they have put in a solid class working on their kickboxing, grappling, ect. I see no harm in it.

 

[Msby]

Here's the best videos I've found to sum up what I'm trying to say

Tricking: No mention of martial arts, except the concept of some of the kicks.

"Extreme Martial Arts": :mst: Content ahead is kinda disturbing

I could be wrong, then I'll just have to eat my words.

 

[Franc0]

One of the best (& worst morally) of the flashiest knockouts I've ever witnessed happened in a nightclub parking lot, when a stupid drunk just couldn't go home.
He started a fight with a buddy of mine who had a BB in TKD, and was currently training in Muay Thai.
The drunk threw some punches and my buddy bobbed & weaved away.
My bud told him to just go home, but the drunk persisted and threw some more punches, to which my bud simply dodged away from again, saying "just give it up man and go home". Then the drunk got really pissed and said "I'm gonna kill you!" and when he went to throw another punch, my buddy simply did this sweet Hollywood jump spinning back kick and KTFO'd the drunk. We all gave the him the golf clap for that. My bud agreed later to the fact that since it was aimed at a drunk, it made that type of move much easier.
This was about 25 yrs ago in Miami Fla. My buds name is Chuckie Daly and he's now training & coaching MMA fighters near the Denver. Co. area.
My point? I dunno, just thought this could add to the Flashy moves topic.

Franco

 

[Wo Fat]

Flash? It's fun to watch. But it's not martial arts. It's gymnastic arts.

 

[celtic_crippler]

There are other, older arts that focus more on a performance aspect than sport or self defense.

As long as people are educated on the differences among the various arts and are getting what they personally seek from whatever they train in, I don't have a problem with it.

 

[Twin Fist]

I can't teach everyone the flash, but I can teach everyone a good solid front kick to the nads. :asian:

i like this.

the xma stuff isnt martial arts, it is impressive, for what it is, but it isnt martial arts.

 

[MJS]

It has already been mentioned in earlier posts in this thread, but it needs to be said again....I feel that it makes the arts look bad. It gives a distorted view to a group that already doesn't have a clue, and they then run around assuming that the flash that they see, is what every art is like. So, when something non flashy comes along, they look down on it, say its too violent, blah, blah, blah.

If you're going to teach something, and this goes for anything in the arts, people need to be told what it is, what it does, what its for. So, if you want to teach someone how to jump in the air, spin around 2 times, and throw 3 kicks, that fine, knock your socks off. Just let it be known that what you're showing, probably isn't the most practical thing to do, in a SD situation. For show, for a tournament, fine. But, then again, its sad to see that many of the kata divisions we see today, with the exception of the traditional only ones, is just that....people jumping and spinning and doing gymnastic routines.

 

[Steve]

The kids who are involved in tricking, XMA and other sports like that are strong, agile and athletic. I wish I could do those things that they do. And for self defense, being strong, agile and athletic can be enough... at least, as with the kids who do parkour, they'll be able to practice the best self defense technique around: running away... very quickly.

So, for me, being somewhat serious, the question is whether or not tricking, XMA, Wushu or demonstration arts like these make martial arts look bad. I don't believe so. These are clearly demonstration arts. They're more like a martial arts derived dance than a self defense art. And I don't believe that the untrained masses are fooled either. Tricking looks VERY COOL. The kids who do this, who incorporate these moves into their dance routines, should be encouraged and applauded for their skill. And if it helps them land a stunt martial artist gig in a ninja movie, more power to them.