Yemeni child bride dies of internal bleeding

Bob Hubbard

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Yemeni child bride dies of internal bleeding

Sanaa, Yemen: Child brides are common in Yemen, where the UN estimates that one in three girls are married before 18.

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

  • 12-year-old Elham Mahdi was married off to a man at least twice her age
  • The child died of internal bleeding caused by intercourse three days after her marriage
  • The minimum age to marry is still under debate in Yemen
  • Last year a 12-year-old Yemeni forced into marriage died during childbirth. Her baby also died


I'm at a loss for words to express my disgust.
 

Archangel M

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[sarcasm] But what about cultural relativism Bob? Who are we to judge what they think is right or wrong? [/sarcasm]

BTW, I agree with you.
 

Sukerkin

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Cultural relativism has it's place but some things should be universal for humankind, no matter where they live.

I too could not believe what I was reading when I saw this on the BBC last week.
 

grydth

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The story is absolutely disgusting. I'd love to join in on the stoning of the Yemenis but for the fact we have plenty of horror stories on children right here in the USA.

* There's a trial going on in California where a released sex offender killed one, and probably 2 (or more) young girls. The USA did no better job of protecting those girls than Yemen did of protecting Elham Mahdi.... and it happens across the country again and again..

* There's a thread going here right now of a girl bullied relentlessly for months until she hung herself. Wonder if the 12 year old sister who found her body thinks we're better than the Yemen of the 12 year old victim.

* A young man was shot and killed in Syracuse because he looked at the gunman the wrong way. No words were exchanged, so even, "He dissed me" is a bygone quaintness.... now, no diss even required before emptying the gun into somebody. Wonder if that victim's family finds us so much more civilized than Yemen.
 

CoryKS

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* There's a trial going on in California where a released sex offender killed one, and probably 2 (or more) young girls. The USA did no better job of protecting those girls than Yemen did of protecting Elham Mahdi.... and it happens across the country again and again..

Give me a ****ing break, alright? You're comparing a violent crime to a government-sanctioned policy of forced marriage for little girls. There will never be 100% protection against crime, and it's a terrible thing when it happens. But that is vastly different from a situation where the crime is condoned by the government and Yemeni society. To turn this around to make a "we're no better" point is ridiculous.
 

Sukerkin

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Best to let that point lie for a while, gentlemen.

This is a subject that should appall the soul of all right-thinking men (that should be capitalised really for I mean Mankind); ponder on what has happened and send your sorrows to whatever externalised source of morality you favour.

A young girls life has been taken, by her husband, in a fashion that is unfathomable to us. That should be your focus for now.

Recriminations and calls for something to be done can come later. Show your compassion first in soft words and sadness. The compassion to bring change can come later.
 

Omar B

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Give me a ****ing break, alright? You're comparing a violent crime to a government-sanctioned policy of forced marriage for little girls. There will never be 100% protection against crime, and it's a terrible thing when it happens. But that is vastly different from a situation where the crime is condoned by the government and Yemeni society. To turn this around to make a "we're no better" point is ridiculous.

You said it man. There's no comparing legal practices in one countries to crimes in another, it's not a 1 to 1 comparison at all. In fact if anything is shows a misunderstanding of what's a crime or what's not.

Disgusting story by the way. My grandmother was married off to my grandfather when she was 12, it was an arranged marriage like most Indian marriages. But here's the difference, he couldn't touch her till she was 18. She lived in the family home, slept in his sister's room and was treated like a visiting family member till she was grown.
 

grydth

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Give me a ****ing break, alright? You're comparing a violent crime to a government-sanctioned policy of forced marriage for little girls. There will never be 100% protection against crime, and it's a terrible thing when it happens. But that is vastly different from a situation where the crime is condoned by the government and Yemeni society. To turn this around to make a "we're no better" point is ridiculous.

No breaks. One society which signally and grotesquely fails to protect its young people has no business looking down upon another.

To speak as if we were looking at anything like "100% protection against crime" in the USA is what is ridiculous..... how many more examples does one need of anything from released pederasts to reassigned Father Bill with happy fingers?

A society which, to such a signal extent, has lost the will to protect itself has no business sneering at other lands.
 

Archangel M

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Sorry. I agree with the others. Criminality and government sanction of child abuse are far different matters.

And the "we cant judge others till we are perfect" meme is a weak attempt at a debate stopper IMO.
 

grydth

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You said it man. There's no comparing legal practices in one countries to crimes in another, it's not a 1 to 1 comparison at all. In fact if anything is shows a misunderstanding of what's a crime or what's not.

Well, Omar, its like this..... one of us has been both a defense counsel and a military prosecutor in scores of cases, and one has not. One of us has successfully prosecuted and sent a serial child molester to Leavenworth Prison and one has not.

Chances are the one who has understands "what's a crime" far better than the other.
 

Archangel M

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Well, Omar, its like this..... one of us has been both a defense counsel and a military prosecutor in scores of cases, and one has not. One of us has successfully prosecuted and sent a serial child molester to Leavenworth Prison and one has not.

Chances are the one who has understands "what's a crime" far better than the other.

Appeal to authority? I can play that game too. Look I understand your point, but that does not excuse the heinousness of the subject of this thread. Or mean that we cannot judge the wrongness of it.
 

grydth

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Sorry. I agree with the others. Criminality and government sanction of child abuse are far different matters.

And the "we cant judge others till we are perfect" meme is a weak attempt at a debate stopper IMO.

No apology needed for disagreeing with me on the merits; impugning my motives is something else again.

I don't have the authority to stop any debate here; I do have the power, frequently used, to be the dissenter. That'll continue until Hubbard has his fill and puts me into exile.
 

Archangel M

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No apology needed for disagreeing with me on the merits; impugning my motives is something else again.

I don't have the authority to stop any debate here; I do have the power, frequently used, to be the dissenter. That'll continue until Hubbard has his fill and puts me into exile.

Fair enough.
 

Omar B

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Well, Omar, its like this..... one of us has been both a defense counsel and a military prosecutor in scores of cases, and one has not. One of us has successfully prosecuted and sent a serial child molester to Leavenworth Prison and one has not.

Chances are the one who has understands "what's a crime" far better than the other.

So I guess that one would grasp that this is an accepted practice there and a crime here?
 

CoryKS

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No breaks. One society which signally and grotesquely fails to protect its young people has no business looking down upon another.

To speak as if we were looking at anything like "100% protection against crime" in the USA is what is ridiculous..... how many more examples does one need of anything from released pederasts to reassigned Father Bill with happy fingers?

A society which, to such a signal extent, has lost the will to protect itself has no business sneering at other lands.

You are completely irrational. If you want to start a new thread to thump your breast over how we "lost the will to protect ourself", go ahead. But quit using this one as a jump-off point for it because you are threadjacking.
 

grydth

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You are completely irrational. If you want to start a new thread to thump your breast over how we "lost the will to protect ourself", go ahead. But quit using this one as a jump-off point for it because you are threadjacking.

One would have to be far worse than merely irrational to attempt a threadjacking of the Forum Admin's own OP.... in point of fact, I am disagreeing with specific points posted here.

However, I would be in violation of Forum rules to engage in a name calling match. Shame we can't factually and respectfully disagree on things without stooping to that.

My points are made on this thread, I yield you any last words.....
 
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Bob Hubbard

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Folks, I think we can agree that this situation is very offensive to us, and agree that we also need to do more on the home front. The later does not excuse nor negate the former. Why don't we just keep this thread to the Yemen issue, and the US specific issues to the others? Hmm? Danke.
 
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Bob Hubbard

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http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/04/10/dead-yemeni-child-bride-tied-raped-says-mom

SHUEBA, Yemen (AP) — A 13-year-old Yemeni child bride who bled to death shortly after marriage was tied down and forced to have sex by her husband, according to interviews with the child's mother, police and medical reports.
The girl's mother, Nijma Ahmed, 50, told the Associated Press that before her daughter lost consciousness, she said that her husband had tied her up and forced himself on her. "She looked like she was butchered," she said about her daughter's injuries.
Elham Assi, 13, bled to death hours after she spoke to her mother and just days after she was married to a 23-year-old man. She died on April 2 in the deeply poor Yemeni village of Shueba, some 200 kilometers northwest of the capital. Her husband, Abed al-Hikmi, is in police custody.

Al-Hikmi took his young bride to a nearby medical clinic, asking a doctor there to administer her tranquilizers so she would not resist his advances. The clinic said it refused.
Al-Hikmi then obtained performance enhancing pills, according to the police interrogation, and that night completed the act while she screamed.
The next day, he returned to the same medical clinic carrying Assi because she could not walk.
"I told him not to go near her for at least ten days," said Dr. Fathiya Haidar. She said Assi's vaginal canal was ripped.
A forensic report obtained by the AP showed that Assi's injuries were much more extensive, including extensive tearing around the vagina and rectum, suggesting that there might have been additional intercourse after the clinic visit.

People like this.....deserve a slow, agonizing death over a long period of time.
 

Empty Hands

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People like this.....deserve a slow, agonizing death over a long period of time.

It looks like he was arrested and will be charged. As Omar pointed out, in cultures with child marriages, certain conventions are usually in place to prevent the worst abuses. It looks like this man is a criminal in Yemen, and this act can't be blamed on "Yemenis being Yemeni". After all, even in the US, the law specifically allows 13 year old females and 14 year old males to marry with parental permission in New Hampshire, and many other states simply require parental permission for under 18 years of age with no set minimum.

That said, the patriarchal culture in place in Yemen and other highly religious Islamic (and other) countries makes such abuses more likely. Even when it doesn't result in injury and death. Hopefully these cultures will grow out of their barbarities, and start to see all people as equal and deserving of respectful treatment. Fundamentalism is one thing standing in the way there.
 

Twin Fist

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Well, Omar, its like this..... one of us has been both a defense counsel and a military prosecutor in scores of cases, and one has not. One of us has successfully prosecuted and sent a serial child molester to Leavenworth Prison and one has not.

Chances are the one who has understands "what's a crime" far better than the other.

you are talking out your backside dude.

comparing CRIMES to cultural NORMS makes no sense what so ever
 
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