Hi Chris,
Actually he is right. I believe you need an outside instructors course through the wingate institute to teach publically in Israel. This is a rule by the Israeli gov"t. I know all the israeli Bujinkan Black Belts have this licence.
I am sure just like any other country there are people that teach without it, however, probably in really small groups.
Kind Regards,
Troy Wideman
Hi Troy,
Thanks for that. I also got a PM from another member who confirmed it (via Moti Nativ), and can honestly say that I'm surprised, and unsure of the way anything beyond basics (first aid, generic coaching courses) could be really regulated. But I'll get back to that. Good to see you again!
It sounds like that's a completely independent thing from the Bujinkan, like being required to get a generic coaching certification before teaching in a community center or gym, right? And it'd be required of anyone teaching a martial art, from aikido to zulu spear throwing...
Yeah, which is what I suggested was all it really could be (in my comments that Troy quoted in his post).
first of all, thanks, a straight answer is nice
generally i know about the kata, school and, kihon. i wanted to know (though ive already found some written resources) about the main themes of the school (for future reference by people stating i should know it, i do, but i dont assume i know everything and sometimes by looking over other sources you learn new things), and the general ninjutsu themes that appear in the kata (for example the moguri theme, that does).
but again, thanks for trying to help me. i really appreciate it.
So, if you already have all that information, what are you looking for? And what level is your understanding at? I mean, could you answer the questions I put forth earlier? If you missed them, here they are again:
I mean, I could start talking about the history of Gyokko Ryu, the stories about the founding (in China), who founded it etc, but can you see how that has influenced the rest of the school? Can you see what the tactics embodied are? Do you know how the history forms the methods? Can you see why? Can you differentiate the tactical approach of Gyokko Ryu as opposed to Koto, Kukishinden, Shinden Fudo etc? Do you know how to recognize when the Ryu's methods are being followed or not?
To add to that, what do you understand as being the main themes? Are you talking about Gyokko Ryu, or the Bujinkan? They can be quite different. I have found that, as the Bujinkan tends to mix everything together (as well as add aspects not present in any of the Ryu), there can be a rather large discrepancy between what one Bujinkan practitioner and another "knows" to be the main themes/principles/concepts/etc of any of the Ryu. I was recently watching a DKMS video on Shinden Fudo Ryu, and saw a senior Japanese Shihan (who has Menkyo Kaiden in each of the Ryu) mix up the principles of two Ryu with similar kata, to the point that he completely went against the principles of the Ryu they were meant to be studying.
This is what I was getting at when I said that one of the major sources should be your training, along with what your instructor tells you... I could talk about the importance of the direction and position of the thumbs, or of why the kamae have the hand positions where they are, and so on, but I've found a number of Bujinkan members (even instructors) who think such things aren't important, or are unaware of them... and some who think such things aren't even part of the Ryu and it's methods.
When it comes to "the general ninjutsu themes that appear in the kata", I'd say none. Moguri (diving, submerging), for instance, isn't part of it. Additionally, that's a taijutsu concept (most commonly in the Takagi and Kukishin traditions), not a ninjutsu one, and not really related to Gyokko Ryu in that sense. You could describe one or two aspects of Hicho no Kata as having a "moguri" concept, but it's not the same thing as the actual moguri idea as seen in the other Ryu-ha. What Gyokko Ryu kata have are Kosshijutsu principles (in general), and Gyokko Ryu principles (in specific). Yes, Gyokko Ryu is related to the "ninjutsu" approaches, but ninjutsu itself is quite removed from what is being discussed here.
Next level of reply is to quote the israeli law books (or watever there is), and im not gonna do that. but there is a law demanding that people who teach any kind of martial art partake in an instructor course made of two parts:
1. general part: any martial art practitioner wishing to teach must go throught this together (karate, judo, arnis, ninjutsu etc.). mainly consisting of first aid, standing in front of crowds, safety standards and all that stuff.
2. specific art proficiency (i just invented the name lol): a part of the course that every martial art has for itself (apart from the others). mainly consists of special emphasis when teaching that special art. unique ways of instruction (if there are any) and special safety guides (it would probably differentiate between judo and ninjutsu for example). this is the part the work is for.
The general part was all I could see as being possible, really, and, as I said, can really only be applicable to people running dojo commercially (even if part time). The second part, though, is where I'd have some major questions as to how well it could possibly work... I mean, the way you're writing this part, it seems that the criteria to get the licence (from the government) is dependent on the internal criteria of the art/organisation itself.... with no way for the government to be able to say what is good enough or not. As a result, the whole thing falls down, and we get things like this:
Now, there's no fraudbusting here, but I don't think it'd come as a big surprise to anyone that the "Koga Ryu Ninjitsu" group stemming from Ronald Duncan is completely baseless in terms of Ninjutsu arts, and has almost nothing to do with Japanese martial arts at all. The usage of weapons is purely fantasy based, the unarmed portions are terrible and again, based in nothing at all... and this is the "head instructor" for the Israeli Koga Ryu group. This is what I meant when I said that it was unenforceable, from a governmental standpoint, in ensuring quality of instruction, which is really one of the primary reasons to have such licences in the first place, as there is no way for a government to have enough education and information on all possible martial forms to make any real binding legislation. Realistically, all the government could do (feasibly) would be to enforce the first (general) aspect, and state that anyone opening a school needs to have done a first aid and coaching course... but that's got nothing to do with the arts being taught.
Generally
I'm gonna stop explaining everything now. not that this isn't fun, but i originally came here to hopefully get to some good online resources (again, only if there are any), and maybe find a new place to ask question and expand knowledge. i dont think proving myself or my skills is part of the "program". i would really appreciate the help, but if you feel you cant do that because you cant "trust" me or something like that, it is truly o.k. i appreciate that there are a variety of perspectives on the subject of how and if and when knowledge in the schools of bujinkan can or should be passed on from one to another, and no-one has to agree with me on the subject.
i say that lightheartedly and hope that i did not insult anyone or stepped on anyones ego.
thanks to those who have and will help me
I don't think anyone has said anything about not trusting you, Dean, nor about you "proving" yourself. What I have sought is a baseline of what understanding you already have. And, when not providing answers, it's not a matter of not trusting you, it's a matter of the answers not coming from written words, but from your instructor (based on the understanding of the Ryu they're trying to get across to you), and your training itself. I mean, if we sent you back with the understanding that Hicho no Kata has you land forward with your kicking leg (and to the left), then turning back to the right to strike to the back of the head, and you showed that, would that be correct or not correct? Again, your best source of the information (for what you would be teaching) is your instructor... as you would be passing on what they've taught you.
Additionally, your OP was so vague that it wasn't clear exactly what you need... if you know the history of Gyokko Ryu, then you don't need us to tell you about it. If you know what the Kihon Happo is, and where it comes from, then you don't need us to tell you about it. If you know what Hicho no Kamae and Hicho no Kata are, then you don't need us to tell you about them.
So, one more time.... what do you already know, and where is your knowledge lacking?
