Written Material for research

Dean X

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Hi everyone,

I am undergoing an instructor course in ninjutsu, and we have to write a paper about a technique or kata of our choosing, including a brief history and background, discription of movement in the kata, emphasis' for performing and teaching the kata, and finally a lesson plan for teaching it to a group.

I chose Hicho No Kata form the Kihon Happo.

I have some resources such as the unarmed fighting techniques book by hatsumi and the tenchijin ryaku no maki by paul richardson, but they have very little to no background about the school, kihon happo and kata.

I would really appreciate it if you could link me up with quality online materials (although i can try and get my hands on some books from my teacher, but it'd be harder) on the following subjects:

1. Gyokko-Ryu Kosshi Jutsu
2. Kihon Happo
3. Hicho No Kamae
4. Hicho No Kata

anything from history to meaning of names to pictures or video explanations would help...

oh, and thanks in advance :)
 

Tez3

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What did we do before computers eh?
 

Tez3

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What did we do before computers eh? :)
 

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We went to the library. Twice, apparently. :rofl:
 

Chris Parker

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Hi everyone,

I am undergoing an instructor course in ninjutsu, and we have to write a paper about a technique or kata of our choosing, including a brief history and background, discription of movement in the kata, emphasis' for performing and teaching the kata, and finally a lesson plan for teaching it to a group.

I chose Hicho No Kata form the Kihon Happo.

I have some resources such as the unarmed fighting techniques book by hatsumi and the tenchijin ryaku no maki by paul richardson, but they have very little to no background about the school, kihon happo and kata.

I would really appreciate it if you could link me up with quality online materials (although i can try and get my hands on some books from my teacher, but it'd be harder) on the following subjects:

1. Gyokko-Ryu Kosshi Jutsu
2. Kihon Happo
3. Hicho No Kamae
4. Hicho No Kata

anything from history to meaning of names to pictures or video explanations would help...

oh, and thanks in advance :)

Hi Dean,

Firstly, welcome to the forum. While I'm going to try to be as welcoming as possible, this might not be what you're hoping to hear. Essentially, the information you're asking for should be coming from your instructor. There really aren't any online sources for what you're describing (for very good reasons), and honestly, if you had to search outside for them, and such information isn't part of your education, then I'd be concerned about why you're being asked to provide it in whatever this "instructors course" is (the only one I know of is RVD's correspondence-style DVD course... hmm). A quick check of your profile says that you're a member of the Bujinkan (for the last 9 years), holding a rank of "Ichi Dan"? For your education, there's no such rank. There is Ikkyu (Ichi Kyu), which is "first Kyu", the last rank before Dan grade, then Shodan, meaning "initial Dan/level". Which did you mean?

But bluntly, after 9 years, you really should already have some idea of everything you're asking about. And your instructor (assuming we aren't talking about a DVD course, but a real, live instructor here) should be able to add to it for you. But I have to say, I'm not really that keen on the idea of any "instructors course"... especially in the Bujinkan, where, other than RVD's mentioned one, there is no such thing. There is only one pre-requisite to being an instructor (Shidoshi), which is being a Godan or higher. And being a junior instructor (Shidoshi-ho), all you need is to be under the direction and authority of an authorised Shidoshi. There is no course that means anything, really, as it carries no weight in the Bujinkan whatsoever.
 

Tez3

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Chris, if there were online sources would you have posted them up or would you feel as I do that is an easy way to do something that surely should be a bit harder than just asking for information? I just feel that, not just with martial arts, that if you are going to do something that will have a meaning you should do the research yourself rather than just ask people and then copy. Perhaps it's me being old fashioned sigh.
 

Chris Parker

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Hmm. I think it's been established that I'm pretty open when it comes to giving information... for a range of reasons that I haven't gone into. But in this case, we have someone saying they're in the process of learning to be an instructor... but doesn't have the resources, or abilities to get such basic answers about one of the very first things learnt in the Bujinkan (Hicho no Kata is the second of the three fundamental striking forms taught to beginners, and form part of the absolute basics of the art). And, as a result, it doesn't bode well (to my mind) to have instructors who still have such questions. Above and beyond, these things are learnt by experience... I mean, I could explain what Gyokko Ryu Kosshijutsu is about, what the essential aspects are, what it's ideas and principles are, but unless you've got experience in it, it won't mean anything, as you'll misunderstand what I'm saying. So no, I probably wouldn't link anything in this instance... not until I got a lot more information about the poster and what his situation is.
 

jks9199

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I can't address the rank terminology, validity of an instructor program, etc. but the assignment here seems a lot like a typical instructor program, where students learning to teach are assigned to create a lesson plan, that might cover some history/background material, as well as a plan for teaching it. My guess is that it's not so much a research assignment as a "think it through, and develop a plan" assignment. He probably doesn't need much more than what he's been given for that assignment.

It might even be a valid phase in someone's shodan prep... I generally have brown or even green belts teach a new student, under my supervision, so that they learn how to teach. If I had several students preparing at once, I might do a brief "instructor class" for them as part of the larger program.
 

Chris Parker

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I'm fine with learning to teach in a structured way (kinda anti-Bujinkan, though...), and such things being done in this fashion, but the questions themselves are ones that an instructor should be able to help guide with. If this is learning to teach, then it's Dean's instructors responsibility to guide him in these things. That said, I'm waiting to hear back from Dean here in regard to my answer before going any further....
 

Bigwill

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From my reading, Dean isn't asking anyone to 'do the work for him'. He's asking about good sources. If folks have suggestions of books to read or videos to watch or websites to visit, he's open to them.

I'm not a long-standing member here, and have only been training for about a year. So I won't speak to the 'contextual' offense of Dean's question. But, from an objective one, it doesn't seem out of line to me. (Maybe it will seem out of line in eight years?)
 
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Dean X

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allow me to explain:

Hi Dean,

Firstly, welcome to the forum. While I'm going to try to be as welcoming as possible, this might not be what you're hoping to hear. Essentially, the information you're asking for should be coming from your instructor. There really aren't any online sources for what you're describing (for very good reasons), and honestly, if you had to search outside for them, and such information isn't part of your education, then I'd be concerned about why you're being asked to provide it in whatever this "instructors course" is (the only one I know of is RVD's correspondence-style DVD course... hmm). A quick check of your profile says that you're a member of the Bujinkan (for the last 9 years), holding a rank of "Ichi Dan"? For your education, there's no such rank. There is Ikkyu (Ichi Kyu), which is "first Kyu", the last rank before Dan grade, then Shodan, meaning "initial Dan/level". Which did you mean?

But bluntly, after 9 years, you really should already have some idea of everything you're asking about. And your instructor (assuming we aren't talking about a DVD course, but a real, live instructor here) should be able to add to it for you. But I have to say, I'm not really that keen on the idea of any "instructors course"... especially in the Bujinkan, where, other than RVD's mentioned one, there is no such thing. There is only one pre-requisite to being an instructor (Shidoshi), which is being a Godan or higher. And being a junior instructor (Shidoshi-ho), all you need is to be under the direction and authority of an authorised Shidoshi. There is no course that means anything, really, as it carries no weight in the Bujinkan whatsoever.

I meant shodan. I live and study bujinkan in Israel (from real life instructors LOL), so forgive me if I'm not so familiar with all the japanese ranks and such, here in israel we pay more importance to studying and the knowledge itself than the formalities.
Regarding the instructor course: as you might be aware, outside our small world of martial arts, all people follow a set of rules/laws. in israel some of which refer to teaching martial arts. to get a license to legally teach ninjutsu in israel you have to follow through an instructor course, so hope that explained that. BTW i dont know what your background is (aside from what it says in profile) but from my experience, courses and seminars are great ways to transfer big amounts of martial knowledge to wide audience, but again, this opinion might be due to difference in perspectives.

Hmm. I think it's been established that I'm pretty open when it comes to giving information... for a range of reasons that I haven't gone into. But in this case, we have someone saying they're in the process of learning to be an instructor... but doesn't have the resources, or abilities to get such basic answers about one of the very first things learnt in the Bujinkan (Hicho no Kata is the second of the three fundamental striking forms taught to beginners, and form part of the absolute basics of the art). And, as a result, it doesn't bode well (to my mind) to have instructors who still have such questions. Above and beyond, these things are learnt by experience... I mean, I could explain what Gyokko Ryu Kosshijutsu is about, what the essential aspects are, what it's ideas and principles are, but unless you've got experience in it, it won't mean anything, as you'll misunderstand what I'm saying. So no, I probably wouldn't link anything in this instance... not until I got a lot more information about the poster and what his situation is.

I might not have been clear enough, but i do have a large amount of information i have retrieved from my instructors, but part of the point is expanding the knowledge and not relying only on what materials my instructors and i have, so i thought the internet (which has already helped me in the past in similiar research) would be a good place to find new resources. about the part where Hicho No Kata is for beginners, i believe you are completely wrong. It is indeed one of the first katas taught, but when you return to it as an advanced student you find new perspectives and complexity within it (as hatsumi said - knowing the kihon happo and sanshin kata (truly) is mastering all martial arts), which is something im sure you experienced as well. but that is a discussion for a later time.

about the info itself: people over the years have written books, and mounds of information on most if not all schools of ninjutsu. the problem with most of them that they are not in languages i understand (i.e. japanese/russian etc.) i suppose most of the people in this forum dont translate ancient scrolls (but i might be wrong) leaving 2 main sources for info: 1. your teacher and 2. books in your language. since the amount of books that arent in japanese but are translated well from it is small, my rquest was to get some links (if any existed, though after my own searches im starting to truly doubt it) to resources writing about the background on the school, kihon happo, the kamae, and kata. If you think that this information is supposed to be secret and passed only verbally between teacher and student, you can say it and ill stop bothering you, but i do disagree with that conception of teaching, as i think it causes the system to "die out" over the years....but again, that is for another discussion.

hope i explained myself better :). oh and good day to you all
 

jks9199

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You have to remember that we get all sorts on this site... and some of them are pretty odd, especially in the ninjutsu area. Your instructor program makes more sense now, at least to me.

I don't think Chris is saying that the material is secret or only to be taught teacher-to-student, but that the majority of what your after simply hasn't been written down for a variety of reasons, as you've already discussed. Good luck with your hunt; I did find some stuff when I searched for Hicho No Kata online, mostly videos, but it's something maybe to work from.
 

Kozure Okami

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Hi,

I could have those answers, but Chris Parker is right in everything he explained. It's not Shôdan level to know each details about this or this stance. I mean, there is no interest, no useful. Even most of Shidoshi [in France anyway, and in Europe] don't know exactly the history of each stance and real "lineage" of each kata in kihon happo gata (I mean, from which school they are from exactly, under wich element, how the stance where built or chosen, or other similar kind of classification - but that exist).
The shidoshi who is your teacher should give you what you need exactly for your next rank(s), no more and no less, and the system of ranking in the same in all the world. The actual French Shihan, Arnaud Cousergue, knows the Israel Shihan (who came in France), and the training is the same.
When you will be shidoshi-ho, you will receive from his hands the "book" of the nine schools, with history, lineage, school techniques, ..... and let me say to you, you will have lots of things to read... and to practise.
Hatsumi Sensei said « the secret is the practise »... And I'm sure that a school won't "die out" over the years just because one doesn't know if hichô no kamae comes from one school or another, when it was put in the scrolls exactly or other "boring" knowledge. There is no "secret" here, but there is so much to learn before that, with your body, and your heart.
Hey, you are not trying to pass a Menkyô Kaiden exam, Shidoshi's exam is already "not bad" to try to reach and, for sure, you will have plenty of knowledge before that.

With Respect from France,
Kozure Ôkami
 

Chris Parker

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allow me to explain:

Hi Dean,

Cool, thanks for this.

I meant shodan.

Okay.

I live and study bujinkan in Israel (from real life instructors LOL), so forgive me if I'm not so familiar with all the japanese ranks and such, here in israel we pay more importance to studying and the knowledge itself than the formalities.

The ranking is part of the study and knowledge. I really don't see how you could hold a rank in an art and not know what the rank you hold is... But more to the point, can you say who you are with? Moti Nativ? Moshe Kastiel? The Akban group? This is just for my interest, really.

Regarding the instructor course: as you might be aware, outside our small world of martial arts, all people follow a set of rules/laws. in israel some of which refer to teaching martial arts. to get a license to legally teach ninjutsu in israel you have to follow through an instructor course, so hope that explained that.

Look, honestly, I doubt that. For one thing, that would require some form of governmental accreditation of not only the instructors, but of the systems themselves. And the amount of, for example, fake "Koga Ninjitsu" I see coming out of Israel denies that. Then there is the fact that, for something like the Bujinkan, it's an international organisation headed in Japan, not Israel, so there is no way the Israeli government could comment on, or state who is or isn't allowed to teach it. The most that can be done is that all registered commercial instructors need to do coaching and first aid-style courses... which is quite a fair way away from there needing to be an official (legal) licence to teach... For the Bujinkan, you need a Shidoshi licence... from the Bujinkan Honbu in Japan. Nothing to do with any laws in Israel. I'd suggest that, if you've been told that, it's likely not correct. If it is correct, it's unique in the world, and completely un-enforceable.

BTW i dont know what your background is (aside from what it says in profile) but from my experience, courses and seminars are great ways to transfer big amounts of martial knowledge to wide audience, but again, this opinion might be due to difference in perspectives.

What I was talking about was DVD/Correspondence courses, used instead of having actual instruction.

I might not have been clear enough, but i do have a large amount of information i have retrieved from my instructors, but part of the point is expanding the knowledge and not relying only on what materials my instructors and i have, so i thought the internet (which has already helped me in the past in similiar research) would be a good place to find new resources.

So what are you missing? Your initial request was for everything from the history of the school to how to do the kata...

about the part where Hicho No Kata is for beginners, i believe you are completely wrong. It is indeed one of the first katas taught, but when you return to it as an advanced student you find new perspectives and complexity within it

All I said was that it was one of the first things you learn, not that it's exclusively a beginners exercise.

(as hatsumi said - knowing the kihon happo and sanshin kata (truly) is mastering all martial arts),

Bluntly, Hatsumi is wrong. It's fundamental to his martial arts (well, for Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, at least), but that's it.

which is something im sure you experienced as well. but that is a discussion for a later time.

It's also not part of what I was talking about, nor was it something in your original post.

about the info itself: people over the years have written books, and mounds of information on most if not all schools of ninjutsu. the problem with most of them that they are not in languages i understand (i.e. japanese/russian etc.)

I don't know that I'd agree with that...

i suppose most of the people in this forum dont translate ancient scrolls (but i might be wrong) leaving 2 main sources for info: 1. your teacher and 2. books in your language. since the amount of books that arent in japanese but are translated well from it is small, my rquest was to get some links (if any existed, though after my own searches im starting to truly doubt it) to resources writing about the background on the school, kihon happo, the kamae, and kata.

The first source you mention there should be your primary one. The second can be rather misleading. The other source you should look to is your own training.

If you think that this information is supposed to be secret and passed only verbally between teacher and student, you can say it and ill stop bothering you, but i do disagree with that conception of teaching, as i think it causes the system to "die out" over the years....but again, that is for another discussion.

No, it's not that I think it should be secret, it's that it's esoteric. It's a form of information that you can't understand until you have enough experience to understand it... and, if you need to ask about it, you don't have enough experience to understand it yet, so pointing you to online sources is pointless. I mean, I could start talking about the history of Gyokko Ryu, the stories about the founding (in China), who founded it etc, but can you see how that has influenced the rest of the school? Can you see what the tactics embodied are? Do you know how the history forms the methods? Can you see why? Can you differentiate the tactical approach of Gyokko Ryu as opposed to Koto, Kukishinden, Shinden Fudo etc? Do you know how to recognize when the Ryu's methods are being followed or not? The more experience you get in this, the more you can see the answers, but just being told the details won't really mean anything until you already know them.

From there, you get the issues (if you were sent to various sources) as to who you listen to... I mean, are you aware that the Jinenkan do Hicho no Kata differently? There are also some differences in their take on the kamae as well, ditto for the Genbukan... then there's the plethora of differences just within the Bujinkan, and we get to a point where you could very easily be sent to a site that goes against what your teacher wants you to get from his lessons (and pass on to the new students). I mean, I can answer each question you have, but what I tell you might go against what you're supposed to teach, and honestly, a lot of what I might say you might not understand (depending on how in depth your study has been).

hope i explained myself better :). oh and good day to you all

And again, thank you for that.
 

Troy Wideman

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Look, honestly, I doubt that. For one thing, that would require some form of governmental accreditation of not only the instructors, but of the systems themselves. And the amount of, for example, fake "Koga Ninjitsu" I see coming out of Israel denies that. Then there is the fact that, for something like the Bujinkan, it's an international organisation headed in Japan, not Israel, so there is no way the Israeli government could comment on, or state who is or isn't allowed to teach it. The most that can be done is that all registered commercial instructors need to do coaching and first aid-style courses... which is quite a fair way away from there needing to be an official (legal) licence to teach... For the Bujinkan, you need a Shidoshi licence... from the Bujinkan Honbu in Japan. Nothing to do with any laws in Israel. I'd suggest that, if you've been told that, it's likely not correct. If it is correct, it's unique in the world, and completely un-enforceable.



Hi Chris,

Actually he is right. I believe you need an outside instructors course through the wingate institute to teach publically in Israel. This is a rule by the Israeli gov"t. I know all the israeli Bujinkan Black Belts have this licence.

I am sure just like any other country there are people that teach without it, however, probably in really small groups.


Kind Regards,

Troy Wideman
 

Troy Wideman

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Hi,

Just to give you a bit of information. Hicho no kata is in the beginning level of Gyokko Ryu Jo Ryaku No Maki. In the section labeled Taihen Kihon Gata. Both Migi and Hidari are considered two seperate techniques. Not sure what else you are looking for?


Kind Regards,

Troy Wideman
 

jks9199

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Hi Chris,

Actually he is right. I believe you need an outside instructors course through the wingate institute to teach publically in Israel. This is a rule by the Israeli gov"t. I know all the israeli Bujinkan Black Belts have this licence.

I am sure just like any other country there are people that teach without it, however, probably in really small groups.


Kind Regards,

Troy Wideman

It sounds like that's a completely independent thing from the Bujinkan, like being required to get a generic coaching certification before teaching in a community center or gym, right? And it'd be required of anyone teaching a martial art, from aikido to zulu spear throwing...
 
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Dean X

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Hi,

Just to give you a bit of information. Hicho no kata is in the beginning level of Gyokko Ryu Jo Ryaku No Maki. In the section labeled Taihen Kihon Gata. Both Migi and Hidari are considered two seperate techniques. Not sure what else you are looking for?


Kind Regards,

Troy Wideman

first of all, thanks, a straight answer is nice :)

generally i know about the kata, school and, kihon. i wanted to know (though ive already found some written resources) about the main themes of the school (for future reference by people stating i should know it, i do, but i dont assume i know everything and sometimes by looking over other sources you learn new things), and the general ninjutsu themes that appear in the kata (for example the moguri theme, that does).

but again, thanks for trying to help me. i really appreciate it.

It sounds like that's a completely independent thing from the Bujinkan, like being required to get a generic coaching certification before teaching in a community center or gym, right? And it'd be required of anyone teaching a martial art, from aikido to zulu spear throwing...

Next level of reply is to quote the israeli law books (or watever there is), and im not gonna do that. but there is a law demanding that people who teach any kind of martial art partake in an instructor course made of two parts:

1. general part: any martial art practitioner wishing to teach must go throught this together (karate, judo, arnis, ninjutsu etc.). mainly consisting of first aid, standing in front of crowds, safety standards and all that stuff.

2. specific art proficiency (i just invented the name lol): a part of the course that every martial art has for itself (apart from the others). mainly consists of special emphasis when teaching that special art. unique ways of instruction (if there are any) and special safety guides (it would probably differentiate between judo and ninjutsu for example). this is the part the work is for.

Generally

I'm gonna stop explaining everything now. not that this isn't fun, but i originally came here to hopefully get to some good online resources (again, only if there are any), and maybe find a new place to ask question and expand knowledge. i dont think proving myself or my skills is part of the "program". i would really appreciate the help, but if you feel you cant do that because you cant "trust" me or something like that, it is truly o.k. i appreciate that there are a variety of perspectives on the subject of how and if and when knowledge in the schools of bujinkan can or should be passed on from one to another, and no-one has to agree with me on the subject.

i say that lightheartedly and hope that i did not insult anyone or stepped on anyones ego.

thanks to those who have and will help me :)
 

Chris Parker

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Hi Chris,

Actually he is right. I believe you need an outside instructors course through the wingate institute to teach publically in Israel. This is a rule by the Israeli gov"t. I know all the israeli Bujinkan Black Belts have this licence.

I am sure just like any other country there are people that teach without it, however, probably in really small groups.


Kind Regards,

Troy Wideman

Hi Troy,

Thanks for that. I also got a PM from another member who confirmed it (via Moti Nativ), and can honestly say that I'm surprised, and unsure of the way anything beyond basics (first aid, generic coaching courses) could be really regulated. But I'll get back to that. Good to see you again!

It sounds like that's a completely independent thing from the Bujinkan, like being required to get a generic coaching certification before teaching in a community center or gym, right? And it'd be required of anyone teaching a martial art, from aikido to zulu spear throwing...

Yeah, which is what I suggested was all it really could be (in my comments that Troy quoted in his post).

first of all, thanks, a straight answer is nice :)

generally i know about the kata, school and, kihon. i wanted to know (though ive already found some written resources) about the main themes of the school (for future reference by people stating i should know it, i do, but i dont assume i know everything and sometimes by looking over other sources you learn new things), and the general ninjutsu themes that appear in the kata (for example the moguri theme, that does).

but again, thanks for trying to help me. i really appreciate it.

So, if you already have all that information, what are you looking for? And what level is your understanding at? I mean, could you answer the questions I put forth earlier? If you missed them, here they are again:

I mean, I could start talking about the history of Gyokko Ryu, the stories about the founding (in China), who founded it etc, but can you see how that has influenced the rest of the school? Can you see what the tactics embodied are? Do you know how the history forms the methods? Can you see why? Can you differentiate the tactical approach of Gyokko Ryu as opposed to Koto, Kukishinden, Shinden Fudo etc? Do you know how to recognize when the Ryu's methods are being followed or not?

To add to that, what do you understand as being the main themes? Are you talking about Gyokko Ryu, or the Bujinkan? They can be quite different. I have found that, as the Bujinkan tends to mix everything together (as well as add aspects not present in any of the Ryu), there can be a rather large discrepancy between what one Bujinkan practitioner and another "knows" to be the main themes/principles/concepts/etc of any of the Ryu. I was recently watching a DKMS video on Shinden Fudo Ryu, and saw a senior Japanese Shihan (who has Menkyo Kaiden in each of the Ryu) mix up the principles of two Ryu with similar kata, to the point that he completely went against the principles of the Ryu they were meant to be studying.

This is what I was getting at when I said that one of the major sources should be your training, along with what your instructor tells you... I could talk about the importance of the direction and position of the thumbs, or of why the kamae have the hand positions where they are, and so on, but I've found a number of Bujinkan members (even instructors) who think such things aren't important, or are unaware of them... and some who think such things aren't even part of the Ryu and it's methods.

When it comes to "the general ninjutsu themes that appear in the kata", I'd say none. Moguri (diving, submerging), for instance, isn't part of it. Additionally, that's a taijutsu concept (most commonly in the Takagi and Kukishin traditions), not a ninjutsu one, and not really related to Gyokko Ryu in that sense. You could describe one or two aspects of Hicho no Kata as having a "moguri" concept, but it's not the same thing as the actual moguri idea as seen in the other Ryu-ha. What Gyokko Ryu kata have are Kosshijutsu principles (in general), and Gyokko Ryu principles (in specific). Yes, Gyokko Ryu is related to the "ninjutsu" approaches, but ninjutsu itself is quite removed from what is being discussed here.

Next level of reply is to quote the israeli law books (or watever there is), and im not gonna do that. but there is a law demanding that people who teach any kind of martial art partake in an instructor course made of two parts:

1. general part: any martial art practitioner wishing to teach must go throught this together (karate, judo, arnis, ninjutsu etc.). mainly consisting of first aid, standing in front of crowds, safety standards and all that stuff.

2. specific art proficiency (i just invented the name lol): a part of the course that every martial art has for itself (apart from the others). mainly consists of special emphasis when teaching that special art. unique ways of instruction (if there are any) and special safety guides (it would probably differentiate between judo and ninjutsu for example). this is the part the work is for.

The general part was all I could see as being possible, really, and, as I said, can really only be applicable to people running dojo commercially (even if part time). The second part, though, is where I'd have some major questions as to how well it could possibly work... I mean, the way you're writing this part, it seems that the criteria to get the licence (from the government) is dependent on the internal criteria of the art/organisation itself.... with no way for the government to be able to say what is good enough or not. As a result, the whole thing falls down, and we get things like this:


Now, there's no fraudbusting here, but I don't think it'd come as a big surprise to anyone that the "Koga Ryu Ninjitsu" group stemming from Ronald Duncan is completely baseless in terms of Ninjutsu arts, and has almost nothing to do with Japanese martial arts at all. The usage of weapons is purely fantasy based, the unarmed portions are terrible and again, based in nothing at all... and this is the "head instructor" for the Israeli Koga Ryu group. This is what I meant when I said that it was unenforceable, from a governmental standpoint, in ensuring quality of instruction, which is really one of the primary reasons to have such licences in the first place, as there is no way for a government to have enough education and information on all possible martial forms to make any real binding legislation. Realistically, all the government could do (feasibly) would be to enforce the first (general) aspect, and state that anyone opening a school needs to have done a first aid and coaching course... but that's got nothing to do with the arts being taught.

Generally

I'm gonna stop explaining everything now. not that this isn't fun, but i originally came here to hopefully get to some good online resources (again, only if there are any), and maybe find a new place to ask question and expand knowledge. i dont think proving myself or my skills is part of the "program". i would really appreciate the help, but if you feel you cant do that because you cant "trust" me or something like that, it is truly o.k. i appreciate that there are a variety of perspectives on the subject of how and if and when knowledge in the schools of bujinkan can or should be passed on from one to another, and no-one has to agree with me on the subject.

i say that lightheartedly and hope that i did not insult anyone or stepped on anyones ego.

thanks to those who have and will help me :)

I don't think anyone has said anything about not trusting you, Dean, nor about you "proving" yourself. What I have sought is a baseline of what understanding you already have. And, when not providing answers, it's not a matter of not trusting you, it's a matter of the answers not coming from written words, but from your instructor (based on the understanding of the Ryu they're trying to get across to you), and your training itself. I mean, if we sent you back with the understanding that Hicho no Kata has you land forward with your kicking leg (and to the left), then turning back to the right to strike to the back of the head, and you showed that, would that be correct or not correct? Again, your best source of the information (for what you would be teaching) is your instructor... as you would be passing on what they've taught you.

Additionally, your OP was so vague that it wasn't clear exactly what you need... if you know the history of Gyokko Ryu, then you don't need us to tell you about it. If you know what the Kihon Happo is, and where it comes from, then you don't need us to tell you about it. If you know what Hicho no Kamae and Hicho no Kata are, then you don't need us to tell you about them.

So, one more time.... what do you already know, and where is your knowledge lacking?
 
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Troy Wideman

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Hi Troy,

Thanks for that. I also got a PM from another member who confirmed it (via Moti Nativ), and can honestly say that I'm surprised, and unsure of the way anything beyond basics (first aid, generic coaching courses) could be really regulated. But I'll get back to that. Good to see you again!

HI Chris,

Hahahha, I am always around, just lurk in the shadows and every now and then post. Life is busy! Little girl, businesses, work, running a dojo and then trying to work on my next levels, ahahhhhhh....I am sure you can understand.

Hi Dean,

I think Chris hit the nail on the head, you really didn't clarify what you were looking for. Chris also brings up a good point, which I always raise myself. What knowledge base are you asking from. It helps to then prepare a response that the person can understand. This is why I gave you the basic information I did because I did not understand what you were asking.

Kind Regards,

Troy Wideman
 
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