Wing Chun Sparring

drop bear

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So everything that worked was basically sports fighting. Straight punching, thai grappling, good ground control.

What didn't work was the theoretical martial arty stuff.
 

Danny T

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Good fighting body mechanics are good fighting body mechanics. It doesn't matter what it is called.
Good punching is good punching, good grappling is good grappling.
What some call today call the 'thai clinch' I learned the same positioning and control in a completely different training system.

Good fighting body mechanics are good fighting body mechanics.
 
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Yoshiyahu

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So basically what your saying that the Wing Chun you learn doesn't have grappling or chin na or throws?
Your wing chun does not utilize knees and elbows?

So everything that worked was basically sports fighting. Straight punching, thai grappling, good ground control.

What didn't work was the theoretical martial arty stuff.
 

Headhunter

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So basically what your saying that the Wing Chun you learn doesn't have grappling or chin na or throws?
Your wing chun does not utilize knees and elbows?
He's not a wing chun person he's the ultimate Mma fanboy on this site
 

drop bear

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So basically what your saying that the Wing Chun you learn doesn't have grappling or chin na or throws?
Your wing chun does not utilize knees and elbows?

There are very few top level exponents of wing chun grappling, clinching and knees.

Where as they are much more common and much better developed by other systems generally.
 

drop bear

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He's not a wing chun person he's the ultimate Mma fanboy on this site

Higher quality coaches, larger class timetables, better training partners, better functional gyms, access to multiple systems, access to more opportunities, a bigger and better social network and cheaper.

Cooler Gi's

As opposed to say Kempo where dedicating yourself to a style means training both nights.
 

Headhunter

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Higher quality coaches, larger class timetables, better training partners, better functional gyms, access to multiple systems, access to more opportunities, a bigger and better social network and cheaper.

Cooler Gi's

As opposed to say Kempo where dedicating yourself to a style means training both nights.
Like I said Mma fanboy
 
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Yoshiyahu

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I disagree but i guess it depends on your lineage. At the end of the day, Kicks and knees are done from the bridge. So its harder for your opponent to react. Elbows are done in the clinch or as i say elbow range. When you get jammed to where you can't throw punches as easily you can elbow. There are five elbows. More if you count the different. In my lineage we fight in three ranges, Kick range, Punch range, elbow knee range.

There are very few top level exponents of wing chun grappling, clinching and knees.

Where as they are much more common and much better developed by other systems generally.
 

jobo

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I disagree but i guess it depends on your lineage. At the end of the day, Kicks and knees are done from the bridge. So its harder for your opponent to react. Elbows are done in the clinch or as i say elbow range. When you get jammed to where you can't throw punches as easily you can elbow. There are five elbows. More if you count the different. In my lineage we fight in three ranges, Kick range, Punch range, elbow knee range.
elbows are a far more effective tool than a last resort when your jammed, deliberately closing range and taking your opponents punching and kicking options away and then elbowing them is a good strategy, elbows generally being a lot more effective than punches if you get body twist in to them, if you can't smash the cheek bone your not doing it right.

plus there are 4 ranges, the three you identified and head butt range
 
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geezer

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There are very few top level exponents of wing chun grappling, clinching and knees.
Where as they are much more common and much better developed by other systems generally.

Yes, WC has suffered from overspecialization, isolation, and unrealistic training with compliant partners. Mark Phillips, who I only know from some Youtube clips seems to be one of a few who are trying to change that. Alan Orr is another. Personally, I see this is as a positive direction.
 

drop bear

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Yes, WC has suffered from overspecialization, isolation, and unrealistic training with compliant partners. Mark Phillips, who I only know from some Youtube clips seems to be one of a few who are trying to change that. Alan Orr is another. Personally, I see this is as a positive direction.

Definitely. But with that becomes a mindset change.

In that they need to seek out the talent to reinvigorate the style. So they stay relevant.
 

Danny T

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One of the problems with training an 'art' or a particular 'style' is the mistaken thought and desire to have a certain look in action. Let's look at other athletic endeavors (martial art is an athletic endeavor) does a person running in a soccer game run completely differently in a basketball game or a football game or parkour? No running is running though there are different styles of running some being far more efficient than others. Sometimes full all out speed is important and other times a more controlled and timed pace is best. There are times a straight direct sprint is the need and other times having the ability to explosively start, stop, re-start or turn in a different direction is required. However it is all running. A martial art is to be used to train, practice, and instill skills that can be used when needed. Train for function not for a particular look.
 

jobo

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One of the problems with training an 'art' or a particular 'style' is the mistaken thought and desire to have a certain look in action. Let's look at other athletic endeavors (martial art is an athletic endeavor) does a person running in a soccer game run completely differently in a basketball game or a football game or parkour? No running is running though there are different styles of running some being far more efficient than others. Sometimes full all out speed is important and other times a more controlled and timed pace is best. There are times a straight direct sprint is the need and other times having the ability to explosively start, stop, re-start or turn in a different direction is required. However it is all running. A martial art is to be used to train, practice, and instill skills that can be used when needed. Train for function not for a particular look.
yes, if you study the running styles there are marked differences between different sports, sprint is indeed a sprint, but sprints over 20 yards have a markedly different pattern to sprints over 90 yards, sprinting controlling a ball with your feet is completely different to controlling a ball with your hand
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Elbows are a great tool. Not a last resort perse, Nor is a kick necessarily a first resort. I will explain. You have three ranges. Kick range, Punch and low kick range, Knee and elbow range. Yes body or waist twist behind a punch or elbow is very effective. Especially if you can connect to weak point on head. If i can headbutt you i can elbow you. Any way i digress. We can use elbows and shoulders too. How ever the system to utilize them is way different from a muay thai elbow to a WC elbow. With Wing i want to set most of attacks up from controlling your bridge ie punches and kicks. Elbows are good once i gain entry to your gates and walked in the door. Then i can finish you with and elbow and knees. How ever if we are sport fighting then i will be disqualified for that.

elbows are a far more effective tool than a last resort when your jammed, deliberately closing range and taking your opponents punching and kicking options away and then elbowing them is a good strategy, elbows generally being a lot more effective than punches if you get body twist in to them, if you can't smash the cheek bone your not doing it right.

plus there are 4 ranges, the three you identified and head butt range

One of the problems with training an 'art' or a particular 'style' is the mistaken thought and desire to have a certain look in action. Let's look at other athletic endeavors (martial art is an athletic endeavor) does a person running in a soccer game run completely differently in a basketball game or a football game or parkour? No running is running though there are different styles of running some being far more efficient than others. Sometimes full all out speed is important and other times a more controlled and timed pace is best. There are times a straight direct sprint is the need and other times having the ability to explosively start, stop, re-start or turn in a different direction is required. However it is all running. A martial art is to be used to train, practice, and instill skills that can be used when needed. Train for function not for a particular look.

I agree in part. You can train in function all you want. But with out sparring non-wing chun guys your art is useless. You need to mix it up with alot of different people who train different arts and people who have formal training at all. You should be familiar with martial artist and street fighters sparring. This is the key to making your WC work. Most Chinese Martial artist never fight or spar with people and when they finally do fight this is how they look!
 

Danny T

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Elbows are a great tool. Not a last resort perse, Nor is a kick necessarily a first resort. I will explain. You have three ranges. Kick range, Punch and low kick range, Knee and elbow range. Yes body or waist twist behind a punch or elbow is very effective. Especially if you can connect to weak point on head. If i can headbutt you i can elbow you. Any way i digress. We can use elbows and shoulders too. How ever the system to utilize them is way different from a muay thai elbow to a WC elbow. With Wing i want to set most of attacks up from controlling your bridge ie punches and kicks. Elbows are good once i gain entry to your gates and walked in the door. Then i can finish you with and elbow and knees. How ever if we are sport fighting then i will be disqualified for that.





I agree in part. You can train in function all you want. But with out sparring non-wing chun guys your art is useless. You need to mix it up with alot of different people who train different arts and people who have formal training at all. You should be familiar with martial artist and street fighters sparring. This is the key to making your WC work. Most Chinese Martial artist never fight or spar with people and when they finally do fight this is how they look!
Did you note I stated; "One of the problems..."

I am a strong proponent of sparring...some light technical, some with speed, some hard.
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Right when i was young, the Key was sparring, We did alot of it. Coming up. But mostly with People who didn't do WC from Muay Thai guys, To TKD and Karate Guys, And Street fighters. This builds confidence, understanding and makes you more fluid with your WC when to root, when to be light, when to deflect and kick when to intercept while punching. When to trap,lock, and control when to sweep.


Did you note I stated; "One of the problems..."

I am a strong proponent of sparring...some light technical, some with speed, some hard.
 

Danny T

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Right when i was young, the Key was sparring, We did alot of it. Coming up. But mostly with People who didn't do WC from Muay Thai guys, To TKD and Karate Guys, And Street fighters. This builds confidence, understanding and makes you more fluid with your WC when to root, when to be light, when to deflect and kick when to intercept while punching. When to trap,lock, and control when to sweep.
Yeap.
We are a multisystem facility with not only WC but boxing, Muay Thai, Pekiti-Tirsia, Submission Wrestling, BJJ, & we have amateur and pro fighters.
Our wc participants have a host of sparring partners.
 
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