Who Did Yip Man Learn Stuff From?

[DanT]

We know that Yip Man trained with Cha Wah Shun from age 9-11 before Cha Wah Shun died of a stroke.

From 11-16 he learned from his Sihing Ng Chun So.

At age 16 he moved to Hong Kong where he learned from age 17-24 from Yeun Kay San.

At 24 he goes back to Fatsan and teaches Wing Chun there.

At 56 he returns to Hong Kong, and begins teaching students there while (simultaneously) learning from Yuen Kay San again?

We know for a fact that he did not teach the Baat Jaam Do until after he returned to Hong Kong (after age 56). (No one who he taught in Fatsan knows the Baat Jaam Do form) Is this because he learned his Baat Jaam Do from Yuen Kay San when he returned to Hong Kong?

Does anyone have any info on how much Yip Man learned from Cha Wah Shun / Ng Chun So, and what he learned from Yuen Kay San?

 

[wckf92]

...this should make for an interesting and lively discussion!

 

[geezer]

That he practiced with and exchanged knowledge with Yuen Kay San is often discussed these days, but Yuen Kay San has never been listed as Yip Man's teacher ...except by some in that lineage.

Now the "Leung Bic" story was, for a while discounted, but recently has been revived with evidence that he, at least actually existed. Beyond that, little is certain.

My personal guess is that like many martial artists, Yip Man discussed WC and CMA with many colleagues over tea, sparred with a fair number, and probably had a few friends he trusted and respected well enough to privately practice with during those years. Yuen Kay San may have been one of those. The others will probably never be known to us.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

...this should make for an interesting and lively discussion!

That seems an understatement, brother.

 

[JowGaWolf]

My personal guess is that like many martial artists, Yip Man discussed WC and CMA with many colleagues over tea, sparred with a fair number, and probably had a few friends he trusted and respected well enough to privately practice with during those years. Yuen Kay San may have been one of those. The others will probably never be known to us

I think this is most likely where the additional techniques may have come from. We all talk to each other and learn from each other. Sometimes it's not so much as a "teacher student" relationship as it is as a "friendship" If I share my knowledge with you and it fits well with your system, then I'm really not a teacher as much as a fellow CMA colleague sharing information, which happened to be of working value in what you train.

I don't think the Martial Arts teachers of the past were as much of a purist as many of the people are today.

 

[Xue Sheng]

...this should make for an interesting and lively discussion!

That seems an understatement, brother.

 

[wckf92]

We know for a fact that he did not teach the Baat Jaam Do until after he returned to Hong Kong (after age 56). (No one who he taught in Fatsan knows the Baat Jaam Do form) Is this because he learned his Baat Jaam Do from Yuen Kay San when he returned to Hong Kong?

Has anyone seen Yuen Kay San's knife form?

 

[Nobody Important]

Has anyone seen Yuen Kay San's knife form?

Its similar to Yu Choi's and Chai Wan's. I think Sum Nung may have altered it a bit, don't know for sure. Either way, not like Yip Man's, but, his lineage has several versions. If you dig around on YouTube there are some videos of Guangzhou Wing Chun knife form.

 

[wckf92]

Nice. Hahaha... except I have chips, salsa, and beer

 

[wckf92]

Its similar to Yu Choi's and Chai Wan's. I think Sum Nung may have altered it a bit, don't know for sure. Either way, not like Yip Man's, but, his lineage has several versions. If you dig around on YouTube there are some videos of Guangzhou Wing Chun knife form.

Cool thx dude...ill search around for it

 

[Nobody Important]

We know that Yip Man trained with Cha Wah Shun from age 9-11 before Cha Wah Shun died of a stroke.

From 11-16 he learned from his Sihing Ng Chun So.

At age 16 he moved to Hong Kong where he learned from age 17-24 from Yeun Kay San.

At 24 he goes back to Fatsan and teaches Wing Chun there.

At 56 he returns to Hong Kong, and begins teaching students there while (simultaneously) learning from Yuen Kay San again?

We know for a fact that he did not teach the Baat Jaam Do until after he returned to Hong Kong (after age 56). (No one who he taught in Fatsan knows the Baat Jaam Do form) Is this because he learned his Baat Jaam Do from Yuen Kay San when he returned to Hong Kong?

Does anyone have any info on how much Yip Man learned from Cha Wah Shun / Ng Chun So, and what he learned from Yuen Kay San?

Yip Man was only at Mulberry Gardens (Yuen Family Estate) for a short while. He stayed there after his family estate burned down (family friends of Yip family). My impression was that Yip Man headed off to St. Stephen's college when he was 18 or 19. Family tradition says that Chai Wan and Kay San tutored Yip Man in Wing Chun on bequest of their fathers. I doubt much was exchanged if this is true, at that time due to the Yuen brother's needing permission from their own sifu, they would have been hesitant to secretly teach another. If anything was exchanged it would have been minimal IMO. Most legends state that any training was centered around Chi Sau and the possible construction of the rolling hands platform.

 

[Danny T]

My personal guess is that like many martial artists, Yip Man discussed WC and CMA with many colleagues over tea, sparred with a fair number, and probably had a few friends he trusted and respected well enough to privately practice with during those years. Yuen Kay San may have been one of those. The others will probably never be known to us.

Yeap!
I for one have discussed, played around with, sparred, exchanged, viewed, been in attendance during, with a host of martial artists from many different arts. Gained a lot of insight and new perspectives that have found there way into my personal teaching methods and personal art.

 

[wckf92]

Its similar to Yu Choi's and Chai Wan's. I think Sum Nung may have altered it a bit, don't know for sure. Either way, not like Yip Man's, but, his lineage has several versions. If you dig around on YouTube there are some videos of Guangzhou Wing Chun knife form.

something like this?

 

[Swagmaster2993]

This may be the start of a great ongoing the thead!

 

[Eric_H]

My first WC teacher once credited Yip Chun/Ching for telling him that Yip Man credited some of his Wing Chun skill to a man named Leung Bik. They've never said anything publicly about it (unless i missed it), I guess maybe because that would lend more credence to the TWC story?

Edit: Then again, Yip Chun did play him in a movie....

 

[Nobody Important]

something like this?

Yup, someone from Sum Nung's line would have to verify though. That form shown is about 70% similar to my Yuen Chai Wan branch, sequences are in different order though and Chai Wan branch does not flip knives for reverse grip.

 

[KPM]

At age 16 he moved to Hong Kong where he learned from age 17-24 from Yeun Kay San.

---He moved to HK to attend St. Stephens. I've never heard that we was there any more than 2 or 3 years. Certainly not 7. I've never heard that Yeun Kay Shan was in HK. What I've heard is that Ip Man and Yeun Kay Shan and Yiu Choi were all friends in Foshan. They hung out together and so likely trained together and exchanged some ideas and techniques.

---What Ip Man taught in HK was different from what he had taught in Foshan and from what his fellow Chan Wah Shun/Ng Chung So students taught. I've read that since he "broke" from the lineage teaching he had to come up with a good explanation to save face. So the Leung Bik story was invented because Leung Bik would out-rank both Chan and Ng. In truth, Ip Man was probably like a lot of us today....passionate about martial arts....so he checked out as many people as he could, picked up on things he thought was good, and innovated a lot of good things on his own. We know he visited and was friends with the Weng Chun guys at Dai Duk Lan. But back then it wasn't good to go against Chinese tradition and declare "I created this!" So the Leung Bik story was a convenient cover. He likely picked up a lot from Yuen Kay Shan because Yeun was older and more senior in Wing Chun than him. But I doubt they ever had a formal student-teacher relationship.


We know for a fact that he did not teach the Baat Jaam Do until after he returned to Hong Kong (after age 56). (No one who he taught in Fatsan knows the Baat Jaam Do form) Is this because he learned his Baat Jaam Do from Yuen Kay San when he returned to Hong Kong?

---More likely that he created his own version of the knives.

Does anyone have any info on how much Yip Man learned from Cha Wah Shun / Ng Chun So, and what he learned from Yuen Kay San?

----I doubt anyone has any information like that. And if they say they do I would be suspicious. After Bruce Lee made Ip Man famous, it just stands to reason that another lineage might want to cash in on some of that interest and glory by maintaining that their Sigung taught Ip Man.

 

[Jens]

We know that Yip Man trained with Cha Wah Shun from age 9-11 before Cha Wah Shun died of a stroke.

From 11-16 he learned from his Sihing Ng Chun So.

At age 16 he moved to Hong Kong where he learned from age 17-24 from Yeun Kay San.

At 24 he goes back to Fatsan and teaches Wing Chun there.

At 56 he returns to Hong Kong, and begins teaching students there while (simultaneously) learning from Yuen Kay San again?

We know for a fact that he did not teach the Baat Jaam Do until after he returned to Hong Kong (after age 56). (No one who he taught in Fatsan knows the Baat Jaam Do form) Is this because he learned his Baat Jaam Do from Yuen Kay San when he returned to Hong Kong?

Does anyone have any info on how much Yip Man learned from Cha Wah Shun / Ng Chun So, and what he learned from Yuen Kay San?

here is footage of the Yuen Kay Shan knife set, very short in comparison to Yip Man's knife set

 

[wckf92]

here is footage of the Yuen Kay Shan knife set, very short in comparison to Yip Man's knife set

Wow that was cool! Thanks Jens!!!

 

[Jens]

We know that Yip Man trained with Cha Wah Shun from age 9-11 before Cha Wah Shun died of a stroke.

From 11-16 he learned from his Sihing Ng Chun So.

At age 16 he moved to Hong Kong where he learned from age 17-24 from Yeun Kay San.

At 24 he goes back to Fatsan and teaches Wing Chun there.

At 56 he returns to Hong Kong, and begins teaching students there while (simultaneously) learning from Yuen Kay San again?

We know for a fact that he did not teach the Baat Jaam Do until after he returned to Hong Kong (after age 56). (No one who he taught in Fatsan knows the Baat Jaam Do form) Is this because he learned his Baat Jaam Do from Yuen Kay San when he returned to Hong Kong?

Does anyone have any info on how much Yip Man learned from Cha Wah Shun / Ng Chun So, and what he learned from Yuen Kay San?

It was well known at the time in Foshan that Yuen Kay Shan and his brother Yuen Chai Wan only knew Siu lin tao, some san sik techniques and bamboo dummy prior to hanging out at Ng Chung So's school, Yiu Choi spent 10 years learning from Yuen Chai Wan, and only learnt Siu lin tao, some san sik techniques and bamboo dummy, Yuen Kay Shan and Yuen Chai Wan most likely learnt Chum Kiu and Biu Jee from Ng Chung So, but not the dummy or 2 weapons. Later in Foshan, Yip Man specifically told his student Gwok fu not to practice the wooden dummy in front of Yuen Kay Shan being concerned that YKS would steal his wooden dummy techniques.