Who Did Yip Man Learn Stuff From?

Oily Dragon

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Being very Covid Bored I found myself on this site and a read this thread. I have not posted on any forum in at leats 8 years maybe longer. Since it has been 2 years I won't ad anything unless there is actual interest . As it would be fair to say I am the foremost expert on Lo Kwai's Wing Chun in the west since I was the first westerner to learn the art I would be happy to answer the questions about this version of wing chun that were raised in the thread.

I knew I'd read this before on MT, someone claiming to be the first non-Asian to learn the Lo Kwai lineage, but this was 7 years ago and a different poster.

I'm confused now, but that's typical.

William Cheung's Biu Jee
 

hunschuld

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Wow already starting to remember why I have avoided forums for 10 years or so. There is nobody else claiming to be the first westerner. I don't claim anything. The Chao family have stated I was the first to learn from them. I have been given no reason to believe that is not true. . My good friend and student John Simmons learned from Stephan Chao, Danny Chao and myself about 10 years ago. He is another American that can rightfully claimed he learned directly from the family . I learned from Danny and Stephan's Grandfather in the late 90's . I also learned from Stephan and Danny . I have also learned wing chun from a great many others. When I had students I learned from them. If anyone claims to have learned the system and they are not Asian then they are frauds unless they trace back to me or John.and even John traces back to me.. The family does not have schools and does not teach for money.

There were questions raised about the Families wing chun. I saw them I am bored so I thought I would answer them. Thats it. The only agenda I have is that I have and have been treated for a brain Tumor. The tumor started me training again. That changes your outlook on things. I decided I wanted to make my knowledge available to whoever would want it . This begins with my old students that I taught Yip Man wing chun to with a bit of Kwai wing chun thrown in. I will not charge anything. I was hoping to do a seminar in Florida where I have several old students. I thought is would be a fun vacation. Not interested in money but I did want an excuse to get warm. Then the virus hit and while work is going just fine its slow.
 

Oily Dragon

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I was just curious if I'm reading two different people claim the same thing, or one person re-claiming what they wrote previously. You just claimed you were the first Westerner, but so did the other guy 7 years ago. So am I reading something you were BOTH told, or are you that old poster returned from the dead, saying the same thing you did before.

I'm a simple guy, I ask simple questions.

I too am very bored.
 
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wckf92

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I was just curious if I'm reading two different people claim the same thing, or one person re-claiming what they wrote previously. You just claimed you were the first Westerner, but so did the other guy 7 years ago. So am I reading something you were BOTH told, or are you that old poster returned from the dead, saying the same thing you did before.

I'm a simple guy, I ask simple questions.

No, I think "hunt1" is the same person as "hunschuld"...
 

hunschuld

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Same person. I forgot I had ever been on this forum. Sorry for the confusion.
 

Oily Dragon

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Makes sense. Too bad, I love a good lineage war.

I raised this point because the claim is pretty extraordinary to begin with, but it's not uncommon in kung fu circles to hear similar.
 

hunschuld

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LOl,

Nothing fun like that. My learning was only dumb luck. The people from the Taiwan Trade consulate in Chicago at the time lived in the same building I lived in. I was in 1 racquet ball court every morning at 6:30 training wing chun and they ( a group of about 10) were in the other doing what they were doing. and Chao Kwai's granddaughter told me her grandfather would like to fix my wing chun. . I thought I knew wing chun at this point but boy was I wrong.
 

Oily Dragon

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LOl,

Nothing fun like that. My learning was only dumb luck. The people from the Taiwan Trade consulate in Chicago at the time lived in the same building I lived in. I was in 1 racquet ball court every morning at 6:30 training wing chun and they ( a group of about 10) were in the other doing what they were doing. and Chao Kwai's granddaughter told me her grandfather would like to fix my wing chun. . I thought I knew wing chun at this point but boy was I wrong.

I remember your posts from years ago about the time I started delving into Wing Chun and started reading forums. I think it was the Shannon Moore v Karate Guy video, you made some interesting points.

When lineages grow beyond families, there are branches grown nobody will ever know about. Yours seems to be one of those.

Several of the best kung fu masters of the last 100 years have been butchers, tradesmen, people who were really good with their hands in general but never became famous until years later when their writings were republished.
 

yak sao

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Wow already starting to remember why I have avoided forums for 10 years or so. There is nobody else claiming to be the first westerner. I don't claim anything. The Chao family have stated I was the first to learn from them. I have been given no reason to believe that is not true. . My good friend and student John Simmons learned from Stephan Chao, Danny Chao and myself about 10 years ago. He is another American that can rightfully claimed he learned directly from the family . I learned from Danny and Stephan's Grandfather in the late 90's . I also learned from Stephan and Danny . I have also learned wing chun from a great many others. When I had students I learned from them. If anyone claims to have learned the system and they are not Asian then they are frauds unless they trace back to me or John.and even John traces back to me.. The family does not have schools and does not teach for money.

There were questions raised about the Families wing chun. I saw them I am bored so I thought I would answer them. Thats it. The only agenda I have is that I have and have been treated for a brain Tumor. The tumor started me training again. That changes your outlook on things. I decided I wanted to make my knowledge available to whoever would want it . This begins with my old students that I taught Yip Man wing chun to with a bit of Kwai wing chun thrown in. I will not charge anything. I was hoping to do a seminar in Florida where I have several old students. I thought is would be a fun vacation. Not interested in money but I did want an excuse to get warm. Then the virus hit and while work is going just fine its slow.

We have a small group of Wing Chun people here in Kentucky.
If you ever want to travel to this part of the country we would love to have you do a seminar here.
 

wckf92

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We have a small group of Wing Chun people here in Kentucky.
If you ever want to travel to this part of the country we would love to have you do a seminar here.

Heck yeah! I'll bring the bourbon! :D
 

hunschuld

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All WC lineage claim that are based on fighting effectiveness. But available videos of fights between pure WC stylist and a trained fighter/sport combat athlete show that WC practitioners without modern sport upgrade cannot fight even on low amateur MMA/boxing/MT/etc level. Even very often metioned Alan Orr and his students are (at the best) mediocre fighters (and their WC is very much upgraded with MMA training methodology).
Do you have any evidence that "Lo Kwai's Wing Chun is based on fighting effectiveness only"?


You have a point and I don't mean to imply better than any other wing chun. I will explain though what I mean.
First you can't teach some one to fight unless you have fought. The shock of a broken jaw or nose etc can only be experienced and you will never know how it will effect you until you have gone through it. Just our belief.

When a student thinks they are ready I will arrange for them to spar at an MMA school. I haven't really taught a student to that level in over 10 years. The test then is to see if you can put the KUIT into practice.
I have seen several videos on you tube where someone is said to be a master and they don't perform the basics. For example. Receive what comes is basic but in these videos they perform opponent comes and I run away. I see a lot of" charge with flailing straight punches". However I am not aware of a Kuit that says charge blindly and hope something lands. Find the bridge,cross the bridge, destroy the bridge. In videos I never see a wing chun master that bridges other than make the bridge with your face and his hand which again is not a Kuit of which I am aware.. No matter how long someone trains Wing Chun. If they can't follow the Kuit when fighting they are not qualified in our opinion. It doesn't mean you win all your fights but wing chun has an instruction manual it has to be followed and its not complicated.If its not put into practice its not wing chun. Its just some shapes and a desire to look like a movie fighter.
 

Poppity

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You have a point and I don't mean to imply better than any other wing chun. I will explain though what I mean.
First you can't teach some one to fight unless you have fought. The shock of a broken jaw or nose etc can only be experienced and you will never know how it will effect you until you have gone through it. Just our belief.

When a student thinks they are ready I will arrange for them to spar at an MMA school. I haven't really taught a student to that level in over 10 years. The test then is to see if you can put the KUIT into practice.
I have seen several videos on you tube where someone is said to be a master and they don't perform the basics. For example. Receive what comes is basic but in these videos they perform opponent comes and I run away. I see a lot of" charge with flailing straight punches". However I am not aware of a Kuit that says charge blindly and hope something lands. Find the bridge,cross the bridge, destroy the bridge. In videos I never see a wing chun master that bridges other than make the bridge with your face and his hand which again is not a Kuit of which I am aware.. No matter how long someone trains Wing Chun. If they can't follow the Kuit when fighting they are not qualified in our opinion. It doesn't mean you win all your fights but wing chun has an instruction manual it has to be followed and its not complicated.If its not put into practice its not wing chun. Its just some shapes and a desire to look like a movie fighter.

Thank you for posting it is genuinely very interesting to hear about Lo Kwai wing chun. In our school when I started sparring I was constantly told to use the art instead of just fighting and not rely on brute strength, which is a bit of a default of any amateur, well and panic.

If you dont mind me asking, does Lo Kwai fists include claw, beak etc.?

In either case I am very sorry to hear about the tumour and really wish you the very best and a full and complete recovery.
 

hunschuld

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Thank you for posting it is genuinely very interesting to hear about Lo Kwai wing chun. In our school when I started sparring I was constantly told to use the art instead of just fighting and not rely on brute strength, which is a bit of a default of any amateur, well and panic.

If you dont mind me asking, does Lo Kwai fists include claw, beak etc.?

In either case I am very sorry to hear about the tumour and really wish you the very best and a full and complete recovery.

Only real animal shape would be a percussive strike using a crane shape hand. Sine we grab you could say it is a claw but we wouldn't refer to it that way just a lop.
 

Oily Dragon

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Only real animal shape would be a percussive strike using a crane shape hand. Sine we grab you could say it is a claw but we wouldn't refer to it that way just a lop.

Only one? Hmm.

How many animal shapes are you familiar with, in the southern Chinese sense?
 

hunschuld

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Only one? Hmm.

How many animal shapes are you familiar with, in the southern Chinese sense?
It's not something I ever paid attention to. I suppose a Bui is a snake hand and bong is a crane wing etc but my knowledge of other Chinese arts is limited other than general viewing pleasure.
 
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