Why is WTF/KKW TKD More Expensive Than Other Arts?

Master Dan

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You get what you pay for some schools charge up to $250 a month for children's classes but that includes transportation on average I see about $60 a month gets in some cases two one hour classes and in other cases for 60-80 a month you can train up to six days a week several times a day at any satellite locations or schools beyond just the main dojang Our classes are free we supply all uniforms equipment and pay for the black belt degrees and we train 2 hours 3 times a week we are non profit all instructors are volunteer we grant write to support it so I see all cost over the entire map you cannot judge one area or an entire art by what single area or master does
 

Master Dan

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I also know of one master friend that did so well with a large program they engineered and built a 7 million dollar Do Jang and are doing very well he does not emphasize hard sparring or go to WTF tournaments but instead promotes training lifestyle and has a Tae Kwon Do festival once a year with a lot of variety and friendship of course the top full contact Dojangs refuse to participate maybe even show up to mock some but so what they are jealous of his success and I love his spirit he believes in one Taekwondo and everyone is welcome and respected I was amused at what he said to me one time he said you Americans are so greedy you want respect right away but you must first give respect and earn it in return He has always been very kind to me we went down one year and provided Eskimo dancing as part of the program and when I got up to participate many national Grand Masters got up and danced with us it was a blast
 

andyjeffries

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I was told it was fifty dollars, but then again I never have converted one my parents always did or my instructor. So it may cost nothing but I would imagine they would charge something for the new certificate and new card they send to you.

When I've done a replacement certificate, it's literally send a $10 bill and a letter to the Kukkiwon and that's it. I've done that twice. So I'd be surprised if the cost of a poom-dan was almost as much as a fresh 1st Dan cert. I won't know for about 4 years...
 

Rumy73

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When I've done a replacement certificate, it's literally send a $10 bill and a letter to the Kukkiwon and that's it. I've done that twice. So I'd be surprised if the cost of a poom-dan was almost as much as a fresh 1st Dan cert. I won't know for about 4 years...

The cost in question is not kkw associated, it is a local practice in the Washington, DC area where masters "retest" and charge for the poom bb to adult bb. Kkw associated costs are another matter.
 

andyjeffries

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The cost in question is not kkw associated, it is a local practice in the Washington, DC area where masters "retest" and charge for the poom bb to adult bb. Kkw associated costs are another matter.

Sorry, I thought Terry and I were discussing the KKW fees. I know local masters may find other ways to scam students, but we were discussing the real situation with how to do it directly.
 

Rumy73

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Sorry, I thought Terry and I were discussing the KKW fees. I know local masters may find other ways to scam students, but we were discussing the real situation with how to do it directly.

Andy, my mistake. Hope all is well with you and yours.
 

WaterGal

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I would only mark up to the point where I was still cheaper than they could get it anywhere else. I don't see equipment as a main income stream as it's a one-time investment for each student. It makes more sense to make sustainable profit from ongoing training fees.

Gnarlie

I feel the same way. The main income should be from tuition. I don't want to gouge my students, so I charge about the same as what they'd pay if they bought it online. We make a little profit, but it's not a big money-maker.

But I know that a lot of schools do mark up the equipment a ton and are charging like $250 for the most basic Century gear with cloth arm and shin pads, which is what I had assumed was going on with Terryl's post.
 

WaterGal

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Although there is no additional test required, there is a nominal fee for the processing of the updated paperwork.

Don't they automatically convert it the next time the student tests? Or is there an extra fee for that? (This is something I haven't had to deal with yet, but I thought that's what I'd read on the KKW site, that they'll promote directly from 1st Poom to 2nd Dan or whatever.)
 

Gnarlie

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Don't they automatically convert it the next time the student tests? Or is there an extra fee for that? (This is something I haven't had to deal with yet, but I thought that's what I'd read on the KKW site, that they'll promote directly from 1st Poom to 2nd Dan or whatever.)

You're right.

Gnarlie
 

Metal

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If anyone wants to know why WTF-recognized head protectors (and gear in general) are so expensive:

http://worldtaekwondofederation.net/images/2014-2016_WTF_Recognition_Guideline_V2.pdf


Charging the highest fee per brand and year for uniforms is okay since it's the best selling item of any Taekwondo brand out there. I just don't get why they charge so much for headgear. I mean, most people buy all other protectors first and a lot of people (at least over here) never buy a head protector. One reason is that they're too expensive and the other is that you don't need them when you're just doing Taekwondo as a leisure sport.

Of course in kyorugi it's the only item that makes a brand being visible (besides Adidas putting their three stripes on arms and legs of uniforms). Especially now that the Daedo and KP&P electronic protectors are used in most competitions. Yet the WTF limits the use of head protectors to the models of their main sponsor anyway at their main tournaments.
 

WaterGal

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I have a question for people with recent national/international competition experience, since there seems to be a few on here. At what level of competition do you need to buy your own electronic hogu and headgear? Where I'm at, the local tournaments only expect you to have the electronic socks; they provide the hogu for people to use free-of-charge and score head shots manually. I'm guessing that changes at some point. Also, Daedo or KP&P?

Also, are there any good online resources anyone would recommend for keeping up with electronic scoring developments, rule changes and so forth? I want to make sure that we can support our students and help them pursue competition to whatever extent they wish to. So far, none of them have wanted to do anything more than a few local tournaments, but I think a couple of them are getting the bug.
 

terryl965

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WaterGal at every WTF sanction tournament both in the U.S. and over sea they provide the electronic hogu's mainly to make sure they are proper;y working right. They will also provide the head gear as well, now they have a device they use to check socks so they cannot be tamper with. MAS Taekwondo does a great job with news about every aspect of Olympic competition in TKD. Right now it is daedo even though KP&P has broke into the market place WTF is still using Daedo and probaly will continue to use since it was a great success at the 2012 Olympics.
 

Metal

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Right now it is daedo even though KP&P has broke into the market place WTF is still using Daedo and probaly will continue to use since it was a great success at the 2012 Olympics.


Since KP&P teamed up with Adidas there's good chances that they may be the main system in a couple of years. I mean, just remember how fast Lajust was gone and replaced by Daedo.
 

WaterGal

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Thanks, I appreciate that. Do Daedo and KP&P work together? I mean to say, if I/my students got e-socks from Daedo and WTF switches to using KP&P, would they need to buy new socks?

I'm actually glad that we don't have any black belt students yet (we've only been open 1.5 years), so I have a little time get on top of this stuff. It seems like it's still so up in the air.

Also, USAT. I saw that the regional USAT qualifier requires coaches to take an online USAT coaching course to participate. If anyone's taken this course, is this actually worthwhile and informative? I mean, if our students get more serious about competing, Mr WaterGal and I will take it whether or not it's any good, but I'll be in more of a hurry to take it if it's helpful, you know?
 

terryl965

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WaterGal you would need to get the right socks for the right Hogu's.

Yes the course helps with you understanding the rules completely and you need to be a level one to coach at a National event or at team trails for UUSAT.
 

Archtkd

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Also, USAT. I saw that the regional USAT qualifier requires coaches to take an online USAT coaching course to participate. If anyone's taken this course, is this actually worthwhile and informative? I mean, if our students get more serious about competing, Mr WaterGal and I will take it whether or not it's any good, but I'll be in more of a hurry to take it if it's helpful, you know?

You have to be , at the minimum, certified as an Associate Coach to coach at any any USAT sanctioned event. You have to be a Level 1 coach to coach any athlete partipicapting in the Cadet (12-14), Junior (15-17) & Senior (18-32) year old World Class Black Belt Division at the USAT National
Championships.

New rules also require that you have a criminal background check to coach or referee, or be certified as a coach or referee, at at any USAT sanctioned event. Taking the certification courses is essential if you want to fully understand and know how to prepare your dojang members for sport taekwondo, even if you are not participating in elite level WTF competition.
 

WaterGal

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Thanks for all the advice, everyone.

Most of the local WTF-style tournaments where I'm at aren't official USAT ones and don't require all this stuff, and that's what I'm used to. And so far, our students have been happy with that and the ones that want to compete have done well in them. But there's a couple students that I could see wanting to take it further as they go on, and I want to make sure we can support them and help them get there.
 

1992

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TKD is expensive because 95% of the schools in the US are belt factories out to generate max profit. TKD is not what it once was and I found it to be a waste of time and an even bigger waste of money in my experience. You are MUCH better off training in a more well rounded art that has its focus on combat, not sport ring-sparring.
 

skribs

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1992, TKD is a well-rounded art if taught right. At my school, we learn a lot more than just olympic-style sparring (well, except for our sparring club...which is specifically for olympic-style sparring). Maybe we're in the 5% and maybe it's a bigger group than you think that actually teach more than just point sparring and forms.

I can say my school is probably more on the expensive side, but the credentials of the instructors, the size of the curriculum, and the level of instruction make the price well worth it.
 

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