Why is WTF/KKW TKD More Expensive Than Other Arts?

terryl965

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And the budget WTF approved range MTX from Mooto is not available in the USA?

Gnarlie
MTX is available but not allowed in the elite level competion, also certain gloves that say WTF approve was not allowed like Granal or something like that.
 

Archtkd

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And the budget WTF approved range MTX from Mooto is not available in the USA?

Gnarlie
They are available for dojangs -- from Sangmoosa Best USA. I bought sets (shin, forearm, gloves, headgear, regular hogu) for 15 students of an after school program run by my dojang two months ago.
 

Gnarlie

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In my experience when something says WTF approved on it, it doesn't always mean it will be accepted - it might be old stock from a brand that no longer has approval. It pays to check the approved supplier lists before buying and again before competing if elite competition is your goal - everyone else doesn't need to worry about it - if it has been WTF approved in the past, then it meets their safety requirements, but the manufacturer hasn't kept paying the licensing fees.

At any given time there's usually one budget brand that is WTF approved, and that's the one to go for if price gouging gets your goat.

Gnarlie
 

Rumy73

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I don't see a problem if the test prices are in line with the Kukkiwon price. I don't begrudge a dojang owner earning a living.

I agree with you when it's many hundredfold profit. You can choose where to test. It should be the first question to ask at a new place.

Gnarlie

Ok. In theory, asking the right questions is key in any transaction. However, when it comes to the martial arts, people do not always know what to ask. Dojang owners are not always upfront with fees and other costs. They remind me of used car dealers at times, not lying but omitting things. Like a family who comes in to start little Johnny, they have no idea of what the kukkiwon is. They do not understand that testing fees escalate in most places. They sign the contract and after that yellow belt rest that costed them $45 on top of the monthly fees, the owner says the next level costs $55. Cha-ching. Time for sparring classes. Little johnny needs gear. The school "cannot guarantee the quality" (we have all heard that one) and recommends their gear, which is sold at an inflated rate. Parents have no clue cheaper options are viable. Cha-ching. Then there is the kids bb game. The owner says little Johnny can be a bb and pushes for little Johnny to get it. Sucker parents shell out $600 for the test. The owner does not tell them that in a few years, Johnny will have to retest as an adult. Cha-ching.
 

terryl965

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They are available for dojangs -- from Sangmoosa Best USA. I bought sets (shin, forearm, gloves, headgear, regular hogu) for 15 students of an after school program run by my dojang two months ago.

Yes they are but like I said not allow at WTF sanction events.
 
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Gwai Lo Dan

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The owner does not tell them that in a few years, Johnny will have to retest as an adult. Cha-ching.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the KKW does not require any additional testing for a kid turning 15 years old to "convert" from poom to dan. Whether the school will send in the paperwork without another test is a different matter, which may be what you are saying.
 

Rumy73

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Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the KKW does not require any additional testing for a kid turning 15 years old to "convert" from poom to dan. Whether the school will send in the paperwork without another test is a different matter, which may be what you are saying.

It is a practice that is common in the DC area. My understanding of kkw rules is like yours, which caused big friction at a dojang where I used to go. A parent was told a bb retest was necessary and it would cost about $500. Since our kids were in class together, she approached me and asked if was it true. I expressed to her what you wrote but added that lots of schools here do it. She asked why? Then figured out the answer herself. The dojang owner found out I told her the practice was a school decision, and he tried to say I was disrespectful. I politely replied that when it comes to charges and fees that honesty is the best policy.
 

Gnarlie

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It is a practice that is common in the DC area. My understanding of kkw rules is like yours, which caused big friction at a dojang where I used to go. A parent was told a bb retest was necessary and it would cost about $500. Since our kids were in class together, she approached me and asked if was it true. I expressed to her what you wrote but added that lots of schools here do it. She asked why? Then figured out the answer herself. The dojang owner found out I told her the practice was a school decision, and he tried to say I was disrespectful. I politely replied that when it comes to charges and fees that honesty is the best policy.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the KKW does not require any additional testing for a kid turning 15 years old to "convert" from poom to dan. Whether the school will send in the paperwork without another test is a different matter, which may be what you are saying.

Although there is no additional test required, there is a nominal fee for the processing of the updated paperwork.

An additional test is no bad thing, to ensure standards are met, but I think charging for anything other than the paperwork fee and the testing expenses is a bit off.

Seems like some places have trouble balancing the values of TKD against the desire for profit. Not everywhere is like that though, and as I said, you need to ask the right questions at the outset, which is possible if you do a bit of research before leaving the house.

Gnarlie
 

Rumy73

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Although there is no additional test required, there is a nominal fee for the processing of the updated paperwork.

An additional test is no bad thing, to ensure standards are met, but I think charging for anything other than the paperwork fee and the testing expenses is a bit off.

Seems like some places have trouble balancing the values of TKD against the desire for profit. Not everywhere is like that though, and as I said, you need to ask the right questions at the outset, which is possible if you do a bit of research before leaving the house.

Gnarlie

Not possible, really.
 

Gnarlie

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Not possible, really.

Of course it is. The information exists on this very forum for those who want to find it. Alternatively, googling 'typical cost Taekwondo black belt' and sniffing around a bit turns up some interesting results.

Gnarlie
 

Archtkd

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I would only mark up to the point where I was still cheaper than they could get it anywhere else. I don't see equipment as a main income stream as it's a one-time investment for each student. It makes more sense to make sustainable profit from ongoing training fees.

Gnarlie
That's exactly what we do.
 

Rumy73

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Of course it is. The information exists on this very forum for those who want to find it. Alternatively, googling 'typical cost Taekwondo black belt' and sniffing around a bit turns up some interesting results.

Gnarlie

Hold on, cowboy. Again, lets talk about parents bringing in little Johnny for tkd. How are they even going to know to Google the search phrase you suggest? Most ppl going into MA have little idea of the real costs. Understanding these costs is not easy nor clearly disclosed. Part of the problem is the lure of the bb and an over deference to masters, which in Korea are just coaches. Not to say a coach does not deserve respect.
 

Gnarlie

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Hold on, cowboy. Again, lets talk about parents bringing in little Johnny for tkd. How are they even going to know to Google the search phrase you suggest? Most ppl going into MA have little idea of the real costs. Understanding these costs is not easy nor clearly disclosed. Part of the problem is the lure of the bb and an over deference to masters, which in Korea are just coaches. Not to say a coach does not deserve respect.

Ok worst case scenario - little kid starts TKD with no research. By the time that kid gets to black tag, the parent should already be aware of the cost of the black belt test. If not, that's the parent's failure. With around 12 to 18 months from black tag to the black belt test, it's not too late to change schools and not lose time if the price is not to their liking.

This is not secret information, it's pretty openly available online for those who want to look for it. I'd say most instructors or other black belts in the class would not withhold information regarding the cost of the test when asked.

So the information is available there are options.

Gnarlie
 

terryl965

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Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the KKW does not require any additional testing for a kid turning 15 years old to "convert" from poom to dan. Whether the school will send in the paperwork without another test is a different matter, which may be what you are saying.

You are right no re-test just pay $50.00 and they will convert it from poom to dan, Also nobody needs for any instructor to send it in any individual can do that on there own.
 

Rumy73

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You are right no re-test just pay $50.00 and they will convert it from poom to dan, Also nobody needs for any instructor to send it in any individual can do that on there own.

And too many folks rely on the master who does tell them the full scoop.
 
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Gwai Lo Dan

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You are right no re-test just pay $50.00 and they will convert it from poom to dan, Also nobody needs for any instructor to send it in any individual can do that on there own.
Thanks, I didn't know that the individual can submit the paper work himself/herself.
 

Metal

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You are right no re-test just pay $50.00 and they will convert it from poom to dan, Also nobody needs for any instructor to send it in any individual can do that on there own.

It's totally unnecessary though. Better spend those 50$ on a black collar uniform when a kid is old enough to wear one.

It's just a sheet of paper and a plastic card. Plus once somebody's old enough they would issue Dan certificates for upcoming tests anyway.

But hey, if there's people who pay more than 200$ for their 1st Dan then I'm pretty sure there's also people who pay 50$ to have their Poom converted to Dan. Actually those 50 bucks at least go to Kukkiwon and help promoting and developing Taekwondo and don't fill the pockets of greedy instructors. ^^
 

andyjeffries

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You are right no re-test just pay $50.00 and they will convert it from poom to dan, Also nobody needs for any instructor to send it in any individual can do that on there own.

Are you sure it's $50? I understood it was $10, the same as the cost to replace a lost dan certificate. I just spoke to a friend who's on the Kukkiwon Education Committee and he said that he doesn't think there is a fee, but maybe $10 is right to cover international postage (as he lives in Korea). I think if you are at the Kukkiwon they just do it for you, no fee. You're definitely right on the no need for an instructor to do it, anyone can do it.
 

terryl965

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Are you sure it's $50? I understood it was $10, the same as the cost to replace a lost dan certificate. I just spoke to a friend who's on the Kukkiwon Education Committee and he said that he doesn't think there is a fee, but maybe $10 is right to cover international postage (as he lives in Korea). I think if you are at the Kukkiwon they just do it for you, no fee. You're definitely right on the no need for an instructor to do it, anyone can do it.


I was told it was fifty dollars, but then again I never have converted one my parents always did or my instructor. So it may cost nothing but I would imagine they would charge something for the new certificate and new card they send to you.
 

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