Why Don't Parents Train?

[terryl965]

Just to touch oin the Daycare, summercamp thing, the BJJ school has them, the Karate schools here has them, even the Kung fu schools have them and last but not least alot of the MMA so call school have them as well. They see the moneythat can bemade so they are doing it as well to keep there schools open because theydo not get alot of people like a few years ago the economy is bad plan and simple.

 

[Steve]

double post.

 

[Steve]

Just to touch oin the Daycare, summercamp thing, the BJJ school has them, the Karate schools here has them, even the Kung fu schools have them and last but not least alot of the MMA so call school have them as well. They see the moneythat can bemade so they are doing it as well to keep there schools open because theydo not get alot of people like a few years ago the economy is bad plan and simple.

And then they shouldn't be surprised if the local parents begin to see them as activities for kids. It's not a criticism of the art. It's a criticism of the marketing.

And... not even a criticism. It just is. If you market something in a particular way, don't be surprised when your marketing works.

There is a difference, however, between the TKD and the rest. In TKD this kind of marketing is systemic and pervasive.

 

[ETinCYQX]

As an adult, I don't have much interest in the jumping spinning kicks and I flat out refuse to learn to fight with my hands down at my sides. I wouldn't have an issue with enrolling a child in TKD if I had one but the way many schools teach it, it is absolutely not the style for me.

While I understand the perception, I haven't seen a school that teaches students to fight with their hands down. That's a bad habit a lot of more advanced competitors pick up simply because it works fine in competition. A proper guard is probably what I spend the most time harping on for newer students.

 

[Carol]

While I understand the perception, I haven't seen a school that teaches students to fight with their hands down. That's a bad habit a lot of more advanced competitors pick up simply because it works fine in competition. A proper guard is probably what I spend the most time harping on for newer students.

You fight how you train

I just punched in taekwondo school fighting in youtube and this was one of the first returns.

I don't know (don't care) who these folks are, but they are clearly in a school setting, fighting with their hands down. Is there any point where the sabum is correcting that? No. Whether the students are being directly taught to fight with their hands down, or whether it is something the sabum ignores, the result is still the same. Students are fighting with their hands down. Absolutely not the thing for me.

[yt]_FRK1TcLBV8[/yt]

 

[terryl965]

Carol you are right,now you know me and my family we teachbaurd up all the time. What some are saying you need to seperate from the sport and what is for self defense. Zachary fights with his hands down during Olympic competition but would never fight in a self defense stituation like that. But than again we teach more that sport, but alot of TKD teach both aspect of the art or sport of TKD.

 

[terryl965]

And then they shouldn't be surprised if the local parents begin to see them as activities for kids. It's not a criticism of the art. It's a criticism of the marketing.

And... not even a criticism. It just is. If you market something in a particular way, don't be surprised when your marketing works.

There is a difference, however, between the TKD and the rest. In TKD this kind of marketing is systemic and pervasive.

I whole heartily agree with you on this, remember you always get what you ask for.

 

[ETinCYQX]

You fight how you train

I just punched in taekwondo school fighting in youtube and this was one of the first returns.

I don't know (don't care) who these folks are, but they are clearly in a school setting, fighting with their hands down. Is there any point where the sabum is correcting that? No. Whether the students are being directly taught to fight with their hands down, or whether it is something the sabum ignores, the result is still the same. Students are fighting with their hands down. Absolutely not the thing for me.

[yt]_FRK1TcLBV8[/yt]

No idea what it is. Didn't watch much but yes, they are. You're right. That's also a kid's class but I'm sure you noticed that, doesn't make it correct. As far as "you fight how you train", that's a valid point for sure but our "sport" rules IMO are more functional than any non-contact style as far as "fight intelligence" and resistance against an opponent go.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think if you want adults to train you have to have a class specifically fitted for their needs. With adults training with adults and or older teens. (ie. 16 and above if mature) Few adults want to train with a partner that is significantly smaller than them with an immature attention span. So if you want adults fit your schedule and class to their needs. I think it is that simple! BJJ, MMA schools and RSBD schools all seem to be doing okay with this approach. Seperate them and teach to their age appropriate level.

 

[Touch Of Death]

What TKD is and isn't is beside the point. If TKD is sold as daycare, TKD... well, is daycare. Before and after school care? Summer day care? It's being sold to parents as daycare. Sorry... a constructive daycare. But a daycare nonetheless.

the point is, with TKD being actively, aggressively advertised as daycare, why would a parent even consider it to be an activity suitable for an adult?

And I don't even know who Dr. Laura is, but if she makes sweeping remarks about daycare, she's an idiot. As with all things, there are good ones and bad, as with everything else. Surrogate parenting has been going on since we started banding together in caves.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that TKD is or isn't a "constructive alternative." Just that it makes perfect sense that a parent wouldn't take part. That would be like wondering why more parents don't join little league.

I guess this is what the world has come to. LOL I thought the concept of daycare alternative was clear, and you think its the same, fine. I can live with that. I don't agree that it's the same; because, they are teaching TKD. And, I think if Marketed properly, it presents a perfect opportunity to lure young mothers and fathers; because, our school does it all the time. It's not the same style, but that shouldn't be that much of a difference, save for the fact that everything is taught in English. I don't think that could be what's stopping TKD from winning parents. Presentation is everything! And, I'll have you Know Dr. Laura can kick your ***; so, watch your mouth you liberal. LOL She's got a TKD blackbelt too, and she is pissed!:soapbox:


Sean

 

[jks9199]

I think if you want adults to train you have to have a class specifically fitted for their needs. With adults training with adults and or older teens. (ie. 16 and above if mature) Few adults want to train with a partner that is significantly smaller than them with an immature attention span. So if you want adults fit your schedule and class to their needs. I think it is that simple! BJJ, MMA schools and RSBD schools all seem to be doing okay with this approach. Seperate them and teach to their age appropriate level.

I agree. I learned that the hard way; we tried to have a class where we students were mixed for the first hour, than adults only the second hour. Too hard to pull off effectively, and adults didn't like training with kids for the first part of class. The tools and tactics you have to use with kids are off-putting for adults.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I would also go as far to say that not only should they not only be seperate but that the times should be different enough that the adults who are coming to train do not see, interact, etc. with the kid's. (ie. enough time between classes) Appearance and presentation and of course the most important instruction that is geared towards the adults.

 

[granfire]

We usually had something close to 15 minutes between the kids and adult classes. Very helpful to ahve the kids clear out, since they do make up the bulk of students.

 

[Steve]

I guess this is what the world has come to. LOL I thought the concept of daycare alternative was clear, and you think its the same, fine. I can live with that. I don't agree that it's the same; because, they are teaching TKD. And, I think if Marketed properly, it presents a perfect opportunity to lure young mothers and fathers; because, our school does it all the time. It's not the same style, but that shouldn't be that much of a difference, save for the fact that everything is taught in English. I don't think that could be what's stopping TKD from winning parents. Presentation is everything! And, I'll have you Know Dr. Laura can kick your ***; so, watch your mouth you liberal. LOL She's got a TKD blackbelt too, and she is pissed!:soapbox:


Sean

It's really hilarious to me that you're saying these things in a thread entitled "Why Don't Parents Train?" It's such an obvious question. I gave you photographic evidence of why parents don't train. If you choose to live in denial, that's on you.

 

[Touch Of Death]

It's really hilarious to me that you're saying these things in a thread entitled "Why Don't Parents Train?" It's such an obvious question. I gave you photographic evidence of why parents don't train. If you choose to live in denial, that's on you.

I train in a school called Kicknfun. And they get Parents to train. Look it up on google it in Spokane. I am not living in denial. I am saying we use the the whole genre to get parents to train... really. Your evidence looks a lot like what we offer. If you see it as a problem, then it is... for you.
Sean

 

[ralphmcpherson]

We actually have a bjj school up the road from me that does kids birthday parties, in much the same way that mcdonalds does birthday parties. I nearly drove my car off the side of the road when I read the sign. A short while later I got a flyer in the mail about it. Basically you have a party of 20 kids minimum and they do a short bjj class and then have a fully catered birthday lunch and cake. The aim is to get kids interested in bjj and hopefully sign up some new members. Basically, many arts/sports/hobbies are now advertising themselves as childcare, not just tkd. Tkd was just the first one to think of the idea

 

[puunui]

What's the alternative and how is TKD better?

Edit, rather than add another post: I took these from my car a couple days ago. If my kids trained at this school, what would make me think that this is in any way appropriate or aimed at any adult?

Visit the Kukkiwon on any given Saturday and the parking lot will be filled with vans like this one. I think most or all of the private Taekwondo dojang in Korea have this type of van, which they use to pick children up from school and drive them to the dojang.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I think the reason most parents dont train is because they dont want to do martial arts. If they were interested in MA or wanted to give it a go they would have signed themself up with their kids. Its like asking why I drop my son to soccer training but I dont join a team also. Basically, I have no interest in playing soccer, but its something my son enjoys and asked to do so I signed him up at the local club (and I even got talked into being the coach). The question could be asked of any sport/hobby you put your kids in, "why dont you play?". How come all my mates who know I do MA dont come and join up? Martial arts is not for everybody and just because little johnny asks his mum to sign him up for tkd classes doesnt mean that mum is going to want to join. Martial arts are hard, they are repetitive, they hurt, they push you physically and if you dont put in extra work in your own time you can quickly fall behind, or worse, get hurt. This is not for everybody.

 

[Steve]

We actually have a bjj school up the road from me that does kids birthday parties, in much the same way that mcdonalds does birthday parties. I nearly drove my car off the side of the road when I read the sign. A short while later I got a flyer in the mail about it. Basically you have a party of 20 kids minimum and they do a short bjj class and then have a fully catered birthday lunch and cake. The aim is to get kids interested in bjj and hopefully sign up some new members. Basically, many arts/sports/hobbies are now advertising themselves as childcare, not just tkd. Tkd was just the first one to think of the idea

There's a BJJ school in Fife that advertises birthday parties, too. The school had a rocky start, but the guy who runs it is a legit brown belt.

I don't see that as a sign of good things to come. But BJJ isn't the topic of conversation. What's coming down the road is predictable, if the marketing strategies from TKD are adopted.

The way I see it, the OP identified a pervasive problem, and I believe you guys are refusing to accept that the successful marketing strategy is largely to blame. You're a victim of your own success.

Does this mean that adults don't train? No. I'm sure that in some places, there are yet other marketing strategies that focus on buzzwords like "family" where the school owners put pressure on the parents to join their kids... at a family discount, I'm sure.


For the record, I literally laugh out loud (well, more of a snort of disbelief than a laugh...) when I read a thread from you guys complaining about how parents treat your schools like daycare centers. "They just... drop the kids off and LEAVE!" How could they do that?

You know, I started to quote directly from threads on this board, but there are too many. It's like guys who complain about their love handles while drinking beer and eating hot wings. "I just don't get it. I exercise... but I just can't get rid of this gut! Nothing I do works."

It's obvious what the issue is... whether you want to see it or not. This doesn't mean he should stop enjoying beer and hotwings. The point is, there is a clear cause/effect. It's obvious. There are choices being made.

 

[Steve]

Visit the Kukkiwon on any given Saturday and the parking lot will be filled with vans like this one. I think most or all of the private Taekwondo dojang in Korea have this type of van, which they use to pick children up from school and drive them to the dojang.

And rlp271 acknowledged in a thread "Are we heading in the right direction?" that "It may just be that sport Taekwondo in the US isn't moving in the right direction, but here in Korea, it seems to be doing just fine even if it is mostly a daycare center. It attracts a ton of kids, and they can pick and choose who they really focus on and send out for better coaching."

Once again, it's systemic and intentional. It's a logical result of a concerted marketing strategy. Why are you guys surprised that it's working?