Why do TMAs have more difficulty in the ring/octagon?

[Tez3]

Wise words.

“Try not to get overly attached to a hypothesis just because it’s yours.”
Carl Sagan

 

[Steve]

Wise words.

“Try not to get overly attached to a hypothesis just because it’s yours.”
Carl Sagan

Something we could all stand to remember. Human nature, though, is that some here who need this reminder don't recognize it. And some here who don't need this reminder will take it too much to heart.

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

If you say so. I think we are all tired of the argument for this year, last year's TMA V MMA wasn't too bad, the year before was a shocker, 2005s was boring. Perhaps next years will be different, no I'm joking it won't. :toilclaw:

Same time next year then folks?

 

[Cirdan]

Actually it doesn't, because it is a verifiablly false statement.

Let go of the dead horsie, it is in a better place now. You can dig the bones up for a little rant next year if you like, as Tez and Honk Kong Pooey suggest. Promise I`ll be here.

 

[Hanzou]

Let go of the dead horsie, it is in a better place now. You can dig the bones up for a little rant next year if you like, as Tez and Honk Kong Pooey suggest. Promise I`ll be here.

Let me help you out;

The statement that TMAs don't have difficulty in MMA because they are MMA is a false statement because MMA is made up almost entirely of modern martial arts and martial sports.

 

[Tez3]

Cirdan, I don't suppose you have Thor Hushovd's address by any chance? :boing2:Oh well I can dream, he is a bit young for me anyway. Loved the Artic Tour, I want a house up there even in the winter I reckon it would be good.

Not off topic just bored of the flogging the dead horse thing! anyway pro bike riders fight too lol two of them were fighting in the Vuelta, cycling uphill trading blows, perhaps a new twist for MMA....on bikes!

 

[Hanzou]

Cirdan, I don't suppose you have Thor Hushovd's address by any chance? :boing2:Oh well I can dream, he is a bit young for me anyway. Loved the Artic Tour, I want a house up there even in the winter I reckon it would be good.

Not off topic just bored of the flogging the dead horse thing! anyway pro bike riders fight too lol two of them were fighting in the Vuelta, cycling uphill trading blows, perhaps a new twist for MMA....on bikes!

If you have no desire to discuss this topic, stop trolling in it.

Thanks.

 

[Tez3]

If you have no desire to discuss this topic, stop trolling in it.

Thanks.

Dear boy, if anyone is trolling it is not I. The debate has run it's course...again. I was only half joking when I said the MMA v TMA argument turns up every year, it does. Sometimes it's that MMA is nasty and brutish and only 'TMA' is the right way, sometimes like this it's that 'TMAs' are pants and MMA is the future. Rarely does either side listen to anything other than what they believe to be true.

I'm sure you are a very good martial artist in your style however I do believe my MMA knowledge over the past 16 years or so may mean I have the edge when talking about it, I imagine you will disagree but so be it. I have done every job there is to do in MMA, from building cages and rings to reffing, cornering and judging. More importantly I have trained and also coached fighters, I've had the benefit of training with some of the most experienced martial artists both TMA and MMA in the UK and we have explored the nuances and techniques of just about every style there is. I was asked to be a consultant of a BBC documentary on female fighters featuring Lisa Higo and Rosi Sexton which was fun, I've worked with other major promotions here as well as our own. Before I trained MMA and while I was, I also trained karate and TSD. I've watched MMA grow here since the early days when Lee Hasdell promoted the first MMA fight night.

If you want to nit pick over whether TMAs are old or new it would probably be best if you started another thread but do have a look at the archives before doing so, it's always worth seeing how many times a subject has been discussed.

If you refuse to see how much a fighter determines what techniques work rather than the style and really want to bash TMAs as being pretty useless in MMA then crack on but I'm betting you will end up talking to yourself. Adieu mon ami.

PS oh and ask anyone, personal attacks are water off a duck's back to me. :boing2:

 

[Cirdan]

Cirdan, I don't suppose you have Thor Hushovd's address by any chance? :boing2:Oh well I can dream, he is a bit young for me anyway. Loved the Artic Tour, I want a house up there even in the winter I reckon it would be good.

Not off topic just bored of the flogging the dead horse thing! anyway pro bike riders fight too lol two of them were fighting in the Vuelta, cycling uphill trading blows, perhaps a new twist for MMA....on bikes!

Sorry to tell you Tez, but Thor Hushovd lives in Monaco with his wife and child

Anyway that fighting on bikes is a neat idea.. Extreme Bike Fighting, the ultimate evolution in martial arts! Both bashin` and bicyclin` are popular like never before so it should be an instant hit.

If you have no desire to discuss this topic, stop trolling in it.

She`s not trolling, just British.

 

[Steve]

It's worse. She is welsh.

But it would be nice to post at least a little on topic. If you guys think it's a dumb topic, you can just not respond.


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[Hanzou]

Dear boy, if anyone is trolling it is not I. The debate has run it's course...again.

In your opinion. As I stated before, if you have no desire to discuss this topic any further, you shouldn't post in this thread with off-topic nonsense about who you want to date. That's called trolling.

I was only half joking when I said the MMA v TMA argument turns up every year, it does. Sometimes it's that MMA is nasty and brutish and only 'TMA' is the right way, sometimes like this it's that 'TMAs' are pants and MMA is the future. Rarely does either side listen to anything other than what they believe to be true.

Except this wasn't a TMA vs MMA debate.

I'm sure you are a very good martial artist in your style however I do believe my MMA knowledge over the past 16 years or so may mean I have the edge when talking about it, I imagine you will disagree but so be it. I have done every job there is to do in MMA, from building cages and rings to reffing, cornering and judging. More importantly I have trained and also coached fighters, I've had the benefit of training with some of the most experienced martial artists both TMA and MMA in the UK and we have explored the nuances and techniques of just about every style there is. I was asked to be a consultant of a BBC documentary on female fighters featuring Lisa Higo and Rosi Sexton which was fun, I've worked with other major promotions here as well as our own. Before I trained MMA and while I was, I also trained karate and TSD. I've watched MMA grow here since the early days when Lee Hasdell promoted the first MMA fight night.

Thank you for complimenting my martial skills, and giving me your resume. That really has nothing to do with your attempts to derail this thread because you no longer find it interesting.

If you want to nit pick over whether TMAs are old or new it would probably be best if you started another thread but do have a look at the archives before doing so, it's always worth seeing how many times a subject has been discussed.

That wasn't the topic of this thread either.

If you refuse to see how much a fighter determines what techniques work rather than the style and really want to bash TMAs as being pretty useless in MMA then crack on but I'm betting you will end up talking to yourself. Adieu mon ami.

And of course saying that some TMAs may not be suited for MMA isn't a bash.

You really do enjoy creating arguments that don't exist don't you?

PS oh and ask anyone, personal attacks are water off a duck's back to me. :boing2:

I don't do personal attacks on the internet. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

[Buka]

Those guys fighting on the bikes leads to the obvious next question....

Who would fare better in a race bike slap fight, a TMAist, an MMAist or an air guitarist? Oh, crap, but what if they rode Schwinns?!

 

[Tez3]

Welsh! where did that come from. I was born in London, and live in Yorkshire!

Would really really like to live in Norway, I know some MMA lads in Trondheim too, they fought on a show here a couple of years back a credit to their country and MMA I might add.

 

[Steve]

Welsh! where did that come from. I was born in London, and live in Yorkshire!

Would really really like to live in Norway, I know some MMA lads in Trondheim too, they fought on a show here a couple of years back a credit to their country and MMA I might add.

Right. I remember now. Not welsh. You're in Yorkshire. That makes you... Scottish? Lol.


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[jks9199]

Somehow, I don't think whether someone was derailing the topic, or accusations of trolling, or posting conduct is the topic either...

Maybe we can get back to the original topic regarding whether or not TMAs can work in the MMA competition setting, and why or why not? I think I've made my opinion clear: the techniques might work, if they're trained in an appropriate manner, but the style's principles and strategies may not fit within the rules.

 

[Tez3]

Somehow, I don't think whether someone was derailing the topic, or accusations of trolling, or posting conduct is the topic either...

Maybe we can get back to the original topic regarding whether or not TMAs can work in the MMA competition setting, and why or why not?

I think we felt a little lightening of the atmosphere was needed, people were getting a little frustrated as whatever was said it coming back to the same result, people getting frustrated.

the title of the thread is contentious in itself, when it states 'why do TMAs have difficulty....it's not an exploration of the subject at all and people's comments reflected this, many tried to discuss but were being stonewalled so a time out was needed before mods got involved. The comments were getting personal as well, when people start chatting about other subjects it usually means it's over the dead body of the thread.

 

[tshadowchaser]

In another thread, a poster informed me that Brazilian Jiujitsu and other grappling arts had a distinct advantage in the first UFC, which caused many TMA practitioners to get easily defeated in the early UFC competitions. Clearly this advantage has continued 20 years later, because TMA is still absent from the curriculum of many MMA practitioners, who choose Muay Thai kickboxing or Bjj over Wing Chun, Eagle Claw Kung Fu, Aikido, or Shorin Ryu Karate.

Why is this the case? What makes some styles have such a distinct disadvantage in combat sports, while other styles tend to dominate?

I have watched this thread go around and around. So now I'll put in my 2 cents worth.
As to the question in the OP:
have you ever seen a MMA fight that never went to the ground, one where someone was knocked out? where was the BJJ in that.?
If you listen to the announcers they always mention what experience the fighter has in BJJ even if its only a blue belt but do not always mention if they have other experience. Any time someone goes to the mat or is knocked down the subject of BJJ comes up but they do not mention a style or experience when someone is hit with a kick or punch.
Most of the fighters have experience in other forms of martial art other than just BJJ unless they come from Brazil

If you go back in time a ways you would find that many of what you call TMA had both throws kicks,punches, arm locks, chokes, and ground fighting in them. Most of those old TMA's specialized in stand up fighting but do you truthfully think they walked away when someone when down or do you think maybe there was something they taught to finish the fight.
Yes there are things in some of the Karta that is not taught to beginners or even in some schools but I have seen some of the most basic forms translated by putting someone on their back and doing the form and guess what there are locks throws and escapes in them.

what makes some styles have an advantage in combat sports. Thats simple the word SPORT and the rules that govern that sport

 

[Hanzou]

what makes some styles have an advantage in combat sports. Thats simple the word SPORT and the rules that govern that sport

This argument has been made before, yet no one has ever been able to pinpoint exactly what set of rules prevents a style from doing what its designed to do.

So I ask again (and I'll add an example); What rules for example gives Bjj an advantage over traditional Japanese Jujutsu in a MMA/NHB environment?

 

[Tames D]

Welsh! where did that come from. I was born in London, and live in Yorkshire!

Would really really like to live in Norway, I know some MMA lads in Trondheim too, they fought on a show here a couple of years back a credit to their country and MMA I might add.

Steve had you confused with a welsh witch

 

[Tames D]

Steve had you confused with a welsh witch

Tez - I'm not sure how this came across, but it was meant as a compliment. In reference to one of my favorite singers song.