Whos Job Is It...And Other Questions and Concerns About Kids.

[MJS]

In this thread, there is discussion about a brutal attack on a mother and her son. The thread started to drift off, so I wanted to start a new thread, to allow those of us who want to, the chance to talk about the other issues that came up, not related to that attack.

The discussion of single parents, both male and female and whos job it is to teach kids lifes values were being brought up.

That being said, we can continue that discussion here.

 

[Kacey]

Primarily, it is the parents' job to raise their children to know right from wrong, to understand cultural norms (courtesy, safety, etc.). The rest of society should help... but the primary responsibility is the parents'.

 

[MJS]

Primarily, it is the parents' job to raise their children to know right from wrong, to understand cultural norms (courtesy, safety, etc.). The rest of society should help... but the primary responsibility is the parents'.

I agree! Being a teacher, I'm sure the school system teaches some of the basics as well, but IMO, the parent is the one who is ultimately responsible, so they should live up to their end as well.

 

[MA-Caver]

Both parents have primary and ultimate responsiblity to carry on their values to their children. Society as a whole helps reinforce those values with laws and other regulations.

Nuff said on my part.



(probably not)

 

[bushidomartialarts]

At the risk of being labeled a 'village idiot' who endlessly spouts that platitude about what it takes to raise a child...

It's everybody's job. Everybody who has a significant role in a child's life is responsible to help that child grow into an honorable, powerful, successful adult. That means parents, teachers, karate instructors, aunts & uncles, role models.

I agree that parents should be the primary person responsible for this, but if you've been paying any attention at all you know it's a mistake to rely on that being the case.

 

[jks9199]

At the risk of being labeled a 'village idiot' who endlessly spouts that platitude about what it takes to raise a child...

It's everybody's job. Everybody who has a significant role in a child's life is responsible to help that child grow into an honorable, powerful, successful adult. That means parents, teachers, karate instructors, aunts & uncles, role models.

I agree that parents should be the primary person responsible for this, but if you've been paying any attention at all you know it's a mistake to rely on that being the case.

I only partly agree... Everyone does have a role to play in raising kids to be functioning adults. For many, it's simply a role of quiet modeling; working, doing a good job so that they see something to emulate. Actually teaching and raising individual kids is the job of the parents and the extended family. Teachers, police, pastors/religous leaders, and others support the family's role -- but don't replace it. And when they try to -- it seldom works out well.

 

[Ping898]

Remember though that it may be the parents jobs, but more often then not they do not or are unable to sucessfully complete that job. That is why others must also step up. How often do you read stories of kids in situations where even angels fear to tread and it is cause of a teacher who took a special interest or a cop who didn't give up on them, that that kid because a sucessful contributing memeber of society.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Remember though that it may be the parents jobs, but more often then not they do not or are unable to sucessfully complete that job. That is why others must also step up. How often do you read stories of kids in situations where even angels fear to tread and it is cause of a teacher who took a special interest or a cop who didn't give up on them, that that kid because a sucessful contributing memeber of society.

You beat me to it.

 

[MJS]

At the risk of being labeled a 'village idiot' who endlessly spouts that platitude about what it takes to raise a child...

It's everybody's job. Everybody who has a significant role in a child's life is responsible to help that child grow into an honorable, powerful, successful adult. That means parents, teachers, karate instructors, aunts & uncles, role models.

I agree that parents should be the primary person responsible for this, but if you've been paying any attention at all you know it's a mistake to rely on that being the case.

I only partly agree... Everyone does have a role to play in raising kids to be functioning adults. For many, it's simply a role of quiet modeling; working, doing a good job so that they see something to emulate. Actually teaching and raising individual kids is the job of the parents and the extended family. Teachers, police, pastors/religous leaders, and others support the family's role -- but don't replace it. And when they try to -- it seldom works out well.

Remember though that it may be the parents jobs, but more often then not they do not or are unable to sucessfully complete that job. That is why others must also step up. How often do you read stories of kids in situations where even angels fear to tread and it is cause of a teacher who took a special interest or a cop who didn't give up on them, that that kid because a sucessful contributing memeber of society.

True, many parents are unable to do this, so someone else steps up. Then again, how many times do you hear someone say, "Don't tell me how to raise my child!" In these peoples minds, they actually think that they're doing a good job, when in reality they're not.

Many times while teaching a class, I'd 'correct' a child. After all, improving on discipline was one of the reasons they brought their child to the dojo in the first place. Now thats ironic isn't it! However, there is only so much I could do. In other words, I could teach their child Martial Arts, I could tell them to stop fooling around, etc., but in the end, the parents need to do their part once they leave. What good is it, if they dont re-enforce the material that I taught them? They could say, "Well Mike, you taught my kid technique A, why isnt he passing to his next belt?" Well, did you make sure that your child practiced what I taught them? That usually led to some serious stuttering! LOL! Well, um, er, well....was the reply. Same thing with life values. A teacher, pastor, priest, doctor, cop or counselor can talk until they're blue in the face, but unless its re-enforced at home, it isn't going to work. Perhaps if they can't do the job, they shouldnt have had the kid. Harsh? Sure, but I'm sure raising a child isnt an easy task.

Mike

 

[Kacey]

Remember though that it may be the parents jobs, but more often then not they do not or are unable to sucessfully complete that job. That is why others must also step up. How often do you read stories of kids in situations where even angels fear to tread and it is cause of a teacher who took a special interest or a cop who didn't give up on them, that that kid because a sucessful contributing memeber of society.

I don't disagree that teachers, LEOs, mentors, coaches, etc., can have a tremendous role in children's lives - but while I agree that all of society bears the burden for raising children, as a teacher I still believe it is the parents' primary responsibility. I have tried to teach too many kids whose parents didn't teach them how to behave - and instead of teaching them the curriculum, I spent an incredible amount of time teaching them the rules for behavior in my classroom... only to have the parents who didn't train their kids how to behave complain that I'm too hard on little Johnny or Janey, while the other parents complain that I'm not covering the material in enough detail, or Joey and Jenny are getting picked on by Johnny and Janey... things like that.

I spend as much time as I can with my students - I come early, I stay late, I offer help sessions during lunch - but too many don't come, because they don't want to lose their social time (lunch) and their parents won't let them come early (too hard to get out of bed) or stay late (have to watch younger sibs) or both (inconvenient for parent), or the child comes and the behaviors are still present - only without a witness.

I do the best I can - but I am not the parent. Generally, students spend 13-15% of their waking time in school - the rest of their time is spent elsewhere. I can guide, I can teach, I can set an example - and I do the best I can. But it is not my job to be the parent, and there will always be more kids than I can possibly mentor in the type of 1-1 relationship that such success stories often require.

 

[jks9199]

I do the best I can - but I am not the parent. Generally, students spend 13-15% of their waking time in school - the rest of their time is spent elsewhere. I can guide, I can teach, I can set an example - and I do the best I can. But it is not my job to be the parent, and there will always be more kids than I can possibly mentor in the type of 1-1 relationship that such success stories often require.

Bingo.

Nobody else is there but the parents and family every day. And the simple truth is that what they see and hear from their parents or family for 10 to 12 hours a day, what they pick up in the general attitudes of the family overcomes anything a teacher or coach can do in a few hours.

I don't have kids; I don't tell others how to raise their kids unless and until the kid becomes my problem. And, all too often, the kid becomes my problem when the parents and family abdicate their role, hoping that the school or someone else will do it.

 

[terryl965]

I would say it is the parent job first and foremost to put the right type of respect and dignity to each and every child after that it is most likely teacher and authority figures, not athletes but police fire and rescue, the ones that are in the front lines day to day, IU know teacher will not be alot of people choices but me and my wife are teacher and we believe we are beholded to help each and every child.

 

[MJS]

Bingo.

Nobody else is there but the parents and family every day. And the simple truth is that what they see and hear from their parents or family for 10 to 12 hours a day, what they pick up in the general attitudes of the family overcomes anything a teacher or coach can do in a few hours.

I don't have kids; I don't tell others how to raise their kids unless and until the kid becomes my problem. And, all too often, the kid becomes my problem when the parents and family abdicate their role, hoping that the school or someone else will do it.

Likewise, I don't have kids either. Additionally, I too, do not say anything unless it becomes my problem. On more than one occassion, people have brought their kids into my home. This is fine. My wife and I enjoy their company. If the kids start to do something that I feel is not right, I usually give it a few, in hopes to see if the parent notices their child. If no action is being taken, I do it for them. If they get upset, my theory is simple: I gave you the chance to take care of your child. You did not. Therefore, this is my house, and I don't like what I'm seeing. You have a choice: Correct it yourself or leave.

Problem is, what they may find acceptable in their house may differ from what I find in mine.

 

[Tez3]

The majority of children grow up to become decent citizens, it's the minority who don't however we hear most about.

Children these days aren't with their parents for 10-12 hours a day. they go to nursery when weeks old, preschools, kindergartens etc. Then schools and child minders. I believe in the States you send them off for weeks to camps. Children today simply aren't the priority they used to be which is wrong, they are the future.

Teachers are important and can influence children far more than you imagine. However enough money isn't being spent on schools. You may believe that parents are the biggest influence on children but no one has the power of peer pressure! Parents don't cause children to commit suicide but peer pressure and bullying does. Good education in academic subjects enables children to go on into good employment, education is vital for the future and unless the standard is high enough you will not get people out of poverty. How many schools, underfunded and desparate give up on it's pupils? However 'good' the influence at home being given up on by authority is going to lead to problems. Kacey is one of the underappreciated hard working teachers that really needs to be supported far more by the government. The problems she has are that now of the second and third generation.

In Europe as I said before children are brought up more strictly, go into a restraurant and you will find well behaved children sat eating with their parents. There's two reasons for this I believe, in Europe child raising is a family job, grandparents, aunts, uncles etc all help to bring the children up and the other reason is the lack of 'child experts' telling parents how to raise children. We tend not to have 'counselling' at the slightest problem though sadly it's getting a a bit that way now. We don't centre everthing round the child, they know they are well loved but they also know their place in the family. We don't treat them as little adults!

 

[Drac]

Primarily, it is the parents' job to raise their children to know right from wrong, to understand cultural norms (courtesy, safety, etc.). The rest of society should help... but the primary responsibility is the parents'.

I agree! Being a teacher, I'm sure the school system teaches some of the basics as well, but IMO, the parent is the one who is ultimately responsible, so they should live up to their end as well.

Cannot say it any better..

 

[Tez3]

It is the parents responsiblilty but this is being undermined daily. For example our government is urging mothers to go out to work, insisting no less, in fact they are saying that you are irresponsible unless you do. Children as young as 6 weeks are going into nurseries and child-minders for an average of 12 hours a day. We are told children will grow up anti social unless we put them in playschools, playgroups etc. Many of these are attached to the primary schools who are anxious for numbers to keep their finances up. Children we are also told need to be doing loads of activities, scouting, sports, after school clubs, when do they get the chance to be children?
Shops sell 'sexy' underwear for girls ages 4 upwards, thongs ( g strings not sure what you know them as)totally unsuitable for young girls who of course want to be grown up. Advertising is aimed at children to nag their parents to buy this and that for them.

We may deplore the young girls who get pregnant as a 'career choice' as I think someone put it but there's two strange things in this. One is that the nursery, pre-school places that are available aren't for them, they can't get their children in ( they can't pay) so they can get back to education. The other odd thing is that we seem to be saying that having children is not a 'career choice' we can tolerate! Suppose a girl of 17/18 wants a baby and that's all she wants, just to be a mother. To me being a mother is the most fulfilling role in the world yet here we are saying to everyone, hey you can't have kids just because you want to! You have to have a job and be a part time mother! My mother never went out to work while we were young, I was 11 and at secondary school before she took a part time job. People now though look down on women who chose to stay home, they are second class citizens. We have an area near us, a council estate ( houses owned by the loacl council and rented out) that has a high proportion of young single mothers, one or two apart the fact they cae for their children is very evident. Most got pregnant at an early age and while you may tut at that can you tell me what else they were offered? They weren't inspired to be anything other than they are, yet many of them succeed in being exactly what they are! They are loving mothers.

We were told in the 80's that it was every man for themselves, council houses were sold off as you had to own your own home, making money was the name of the game. Good manners, good behaviour, ethic etc went out the window in the rush to make money and own property now we are reaping want was sown then.