9/11--Was it an inside job?

Was 9/11 an inside job?

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  • Undecided


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Sensei Payne

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It has been many years since that Tragic day...and many lives lost, and I just want to say as the one to start this thread. I have the utmost respect for the dead and the families who have been directly effected by the events on 9/11. Let it be the direct victims, soliders who have been deployed, fought,were injured, and even lost there lives in the Middle East doing there duty.

I hope that going forward with this, all others will remember that this thread is not debating if 9/11 was bad, or saying that the event itself was faked...because we all know..it happened, the death and loss was real..and we are all effected by it to this very day.

What I hope to discuss here, is who truely was behind the 9/11 attacks. Do we take what our American Government tells us as the true story, blindly and faithfully.

Or do we look at the facts and the damage and all evidence provided and start to truely understand what happened, in all its detail.

I for one do not believe that a group of cave dwellers, from the other side of the planet would be able to coordinate with military percision a attack on that scale..With nothing but box cutters at there disposal. I have seen many documentaries, including "loose Change", and "Zeitguist"..along with several other docs that I have found floating around on Netflix...Double checked to see if the facts match up...and derived that the story they are telling us..is not what really happening...

So...That all being said..what is your opinions and views. They will be met with respect.
 

Bill Mattocks

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I will make a comment on the meta-data rather than the data itself. It is my observation that the people most often involved in pushing forward the theory that the coordinated terrorist attack on the USA on 9/11 was a conspiracy involving the US government are quite often involved in other conspiracy theories as well. This, as much as anything else, is compelling information for me.

I always ask a simple question to proponents of such conspiracy theories. Is there any way that you could be persuaded to change your opinion? Most often, the answer that I get is something along the lines of "No, because I'm right." At that point, I believe we are talking about belief as opposed to science or fact; the person involved is emotionally invested in their point of view and there is literally nothing that could change their minds.

My personal opinion is that the facts speak for themselves. The attacks were not a conspiracy of the US government. I am open to having my mind changed, but I have looked at a lot of the conspiracy sites, and I have been mostly annoyed by the lack of scientific method and lack of understanding of fairly basic engineering issues.
 
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Sensei Payne

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As where I remain open to Theories from all directions based on the facts...I gotta say...the explaination that the 9/11 comission report gives us...is just completely impossible.

1) Building 7 collapsing due to fire, when the building was designed to take greater damage than it actually had

2)The "Plane" that crashed into the penagon, all being burned up in the fire, not so much as a black box, not to mention pieces that were found, were found to be pieces from a plane that weren't even from the type of plane that crashed into the building.

There are just so many gleeming holes in the story that it just can't be true...there is just no possible way.
 

Ken Morgan

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Seriously?
Come on, conspiracy theories are almost all horse ****, because people are just not that good at keeping secrets. This would have been the mother of all secrets involving hundreds if not thousands of people. They couldnt even cover up the hotel break in from Watergate, and you expect them to cover up something of this magnitude??
People just are not that competent.
 

Sukerkin

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There are still unanswered questions with regard to this tragedy, it is true. I put myself as "Undecided" on this issue but not because I necessarily think that the US government was complicit by action in the attack.

Complicit by inaction, maybe but as to whether that inaction was deliberate policy or simple mistake I can't say.

One point that always sticks in my head is that that footage of Building 7 falling has ever looked to me like a series of demolition charges running up the building but that is hardly evidence given that I am not a civil engineer.
 

Bob Hubbard

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Inside job. Just as Pearl Harbor, the Iraq invasion, the Vietnam war and the Spanish-American war were. Conspired and arranged.
and yes, I'll expand on all those shortly.
 

Twin Fist

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anyone that thinks 9-11 was an inside job is a .................wrong,

not just wrong but more wrong than has been recorded in the history of being wrong

they are wrong on a level approaching epic wrongness.

there is no possible way it could have been an inside job

for no other reason than this:

the us government is 100% incapable of keeping a secret


i normally call truthers barking loon's and go off on rants of epic and biblical proportions, but i am trying to cut back on my rants in accordance with the new rules round these parts.....

I hope you are happy Bob......oh the headache i am gonna have for not going off on this topic....
 
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Sensei Payne

Sensei Payne

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anyone that thinks 9-11 was an inside job is a .................wrong,

not just wrong but more wrong than has been recorded in the history of being wrong

they are wrong on a level approaching epic wrongness.

there is no possible way it could have been an inside job

for no other reason than this:

the us government is 100% incapable of keeping a secret


i normally call truthers barking loon's and go off on rants of epic and biblical proportions, but i am trying to cut back on my rants in accordance with the new rules round these parts.....

I hope you are happy Bob......oh the headache i am gonna have for not going off on this topic....


I think that the blaring holes in the 9/11 commission report would be enough for the "secret". The Report itself was an insult to American Intellegence.

The Project for the New American Century (PNAC), a non-profit organization founded in 1997 by prominent Republican leaders, called for a transformation of America to exercise military total spectrum dominance and unchallenged worldwide hegemony. The PNAC program, in a nutshell: America's military must rule out even the possibility of a serious global or regional challenger anywhere in the world. The regime of Saddam Hussein must be toppled immediately, by U.S. force if necessary. And the entire Middle East must be reordered according to an American plan. PNAC's most important study notes that selling this plan to the American people will likely take a long time, "absent some catastrophic catalyzing event like a new Pearl Harbor." (PNAC, Rebuilding America's Defenses (1997), p.51)

A catalyzing catastrophe did come, and since September 11 the policies that PNAC promoted have been put in place by PNAC's own members. They occupy nearly all of the key positions in the Bush administration national security apparatus. Paul Wolfowitz, who was under oath alongside Rumsfeld at the March 23 testimony, signed on to the PNAC document which specifically referred to a "new Pearl Harbor" in a favorable light (in September 2000).

Donald Rumsfeld was a signatory to the PNAC mission statement, along with administration stalwarts Dick Cheney, John Negroponte, Elliot Abrams, Otto Reich and Zalmay Khalilzad, as well as Jeb Bush. For all of them, the Project for a New American Century amounts to a kind of public oath. The mission statement and the entire PNAC plan were published on the web at newamericancentury. org, years before the Bush administration came to power.

Since all of this information is open source, how is it that the commission managed to entirely ignore it when they questioned Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Myers?
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040527220940331
 

Twin Fist

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there is no way it was an inside job, you are wrong, and i can shred any point you try to make instantly, thats how much time i have spent looking into this over the last 10 years

you are wrong, dont make me prove it.

or do, i could use the fun
 
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Sensei Payne

Sensei Payne

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there is no way it was an inside job, you are wrong, and i can shred any point you try to make instantly, thats how much time i have spent looking into this over the last 10 years

you are wrong, dont make me prove it.

or do, i could use the fun


I will make it even easier for you...here is a list of all the reasons to doubt the OFFICIAL STORY of 9/11

THE DAY ITSELF - EVIDENCE OF COMPLICITY
1) AWOL Chain of Command
a. It is well documented that the officials topping the chain of command for response to a domestic attack - George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Myers, Montague Winfield - all found reason to do something else during the actual attacks, other than assuming their duties as decision-makers.
b. Who was actually in charge? Dick Cheney, Richard Clarke, Norman Mineta and the 9/11 Commission directly conflict in their accounts of top-level response to the unfolding events, such that several (or all) of them must be lying.
2) Air Defense Failures
a. The US air defense system failed to follow standard procedures for responding to diverted passenger flights.
b. Timelines: The various responsible agencies - NORAD, FAA, Pentagon, USAF, as well as the 9/11 Commission - gave radically different explanations for the failure (in some cases upheld for years), such that several officials must have lied; but none were held accountable.
c. Was there an air defense standdown?
3) Pentagon Strike
How was it possible the Pentagon was hit 1 hour and 20 minutes after the attacks began? Why was there no response from Andrews Air Force Base, just 10 miles away and home to Air National Guard units charged with defending the skies above the nation''s capital? How did Hani Hanjour, a man who failed as a Cessna pilot on his first flight in a Boeing, execute a difficult aerobatic maneuver to strike the Pentagon? Why did the attack strike the just-renovated side, which was largely empty and opposite from the high command?

4) Wargames
a. US military and other authorities planned or actually rehearsed defensive response to all elements of the 9/11 scenario during the year prior to the attack - including multiple hijackings, suicide crashbombings, and a strike on the Pentagon.
b. The multiple military wargames planned long in advance and held on the morning of September 11th included scenarios of a domestic air crisis, a plane crashing into a government building, and a large-scale emergency in New York. If this was only an incredible series of coincidences, why did the official investigations avoid the issue? There is evidence that the wargames created confusion as to whether the unfolding events were "real world or exercise." Did wargames serve as the cover for air defense sabotage, and/or the execution of an "inside job"?

5) Flight 93
Did the Shanksville crash occur at 10:06 (according to a seismic report) or 10:03 (according to the 9/11 Commission)? Does the Commission wish to hide what happened in the last three minutes of the flight, and if so, why? Was Flight 93 shot down, as indicated by the scattering of debris over a trail of several miles?


THE DAY - POSSIBLE SMOKING GUNS
6) Did cell phones work at 30,000 feet in 2001? How many hijackings were attempted? How many flights were diverted?
7) Demolition Hypothesis
What caused the collapse of a third skyscraper, WTC 7, which was not hit by a plane? Were the Twin Towers and WTC 7 brought down by explosives? (See "The Case for Demolitions," the websites wtc7.net and 911research.wtc7.net, and the influential article by physicist Steven Jones. See also items no. 16 and 24, below.)

FOREKNOWLEDGE & THE ALLEGED HIJACKERS

8) What did officials know? How did they know it?
a. Multiple allied foreign agencies informed the US government of a coming attack in detail, including the manner and likely targets of the attack, the name of the operation (the "Big Wedding"), and the names of certain men later identified as being among the perpetrators.
b. Various individuals came into possession of specific advance knowledge, and some of them tried to warn the US prior to September 11th.
c. Certain prominent persons received warnings not to fly on the week or on the day of September 11th.

9) Able Danger, Plus - Surveillance of Alleged Hijackers
a. The men identified as the 9/11 ringleaders were under surveillance for years beforehand, on the suspicion they were terrorists, by a variety of US and allied authorities - including the CIA, the US military''s "Able Danger" program, the German authorities, Israeli intelligence and others.
b. Two of the alleged ringleaders who were known to be under surveillance by the CIA also lived with an FBI asset in San Diego, but this is supposed to be yet another coincidence.
10) Obstruction of FBI Investigations prior to 9/11
A group of FBI officials in New York systematically suppressed field investigations of potential terrorists that might have uncovered the alleged hijackers - as the Moussaoui case once again showed. The stories of Sibel Edmonds, Robert Wright, Coleen Rowley and Harry Samit, the "Phoenix Memo," David Schippers, the 199i orders restricting investigations, the Bush administration''s order to back off the Bin Ladin family, the reaction to the "Bojinka" plot, and John O''Neil do not, when considered in sum, indicate mere incompetence, but high-level corruption and protection of criminal networks, including the network of the alleged 9/11 conspirators. (Nearly all of these examples were omitted from or relegated to fleeting footnotes in The 9/11 Commission Report.)

11) Insider Trading
a. Unknown speculators allegedly used foreknowledge of the Sept. 11th events to profiteer on many markets internationally - including but not limited to "put options" placed to short-sell the two airlines, WTC tenants, and WTC re-insurance companies in Chicago and London.
b. In addition, suspicious monetary transactions worth hundreds of millions were conducted through offices at the Twin Towers during the actual attacks.
c. Initial reports on these trades were suppressed and forgotten, and only years later did the 9/11 Commission and SEC provide a partial, but untenable explanation for only a small number of transactions (covering only the airline put options through the Chicago Board of Exchange).

12) Who were the perpetrators?
a. Much of the evidence establishing who did the crime is dubious and miraculous: bags full of incriminating material that happened to miss the flight or were left in a van; the "magic passport" of an alleged hijacker, found at Ground Zero; documents found at motels where the alleged perpetrators had stayed days and weeks before 9/11.
b. The identities of the alleged hijackers remain unresolved, there are contradictions in official accounts of their actions and travels, and there is evidence several of them had "doubles," all of which is omitted from official investigations.
c. What happened to initial claims by the government that 50 people involved in the attacks had been identified, including the 19 alleged hijackers, with 10 still at large (suggesting that 20 had been apprehended)? http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-worldtrade-50suspects,0,1825231.story


THE 9/11 COVER-UP, 2001-2006
13) Who Is Osama Bin Ladin?
a. Who judges which of the many conflicting and dubious statements and videos attributed to Osama Bin Ladin are genuine, and which are fake? The most important Osama Bin Ladin video (Nov. 2001), in which he supposedly confesses to masterminding 9/11, appears to be a fake. In any event, the State Department''s translation of it is fraudulent.
b. Did Osama Bin Ladin visit Dubai and meet a CIA agent in July 2001 (Le Figaro)? Was he receiving dialysis in a Pakistani military hospital on the night of September 10, 2001 (CBS)?
c. Whether by Bush or Clinton: Why is Osama always allowed to escape?
d. The terror network associated with Osama, known as the "base" (al-Qaeda), originated in the CIA-sponsored 1980s anti-Soviet jihad in Afghanistan. When did this network stop serving as an asset to covert operations by US intelligence and allied agencies? What were its operatives doing in Kosovo, Bosnia and Chechnya in the years prior to 9/11?

14) All the Signs of a Systematic 9/11 Cover-up
a. Airplane black boxes were found at Ground Zero, according to two first responders and an unnamed NTSB official, but they were "disappeared" and their existence is denied in The 9/11 Commission Report.
b. US officials consistently suppressed and destroyed evidence (like the tapes recorded by air traffic controllers who handled the New York flights).
c. Whistleblowers (like Sibel Edmonds and Anthony Shaffer) were intimidated, gagged and sanctioned, sending a clear signal to others who might be thinking about speaking out.
d. Officials who "failed" (like Myers and Eberhard, as well as Frasca, Maltbie and Bowman of the FBI) were given promotions.

15) Poisoning New York
The White House deliberately pressured the EPA into giving false public assurances that the toxic air at Ground Zero was safe to breathe. This knowingly contributed to an as-yet unknown number of health cases and fatalities, and demonstrates that the administration does consider the lives of American citizens to be expendable on behalf of certain interests.
16) Disposing of the Crime Scene
The rapid and illegal scrapping of the WTC ruins at Ground Zero disposed of almost all of the structural steel indispensable to any investigation of the collapse mechanics. (See also item no. 23, below.)
17) Anthrax
Mailings of weapons-grade anthrax - which caused a practical suspension of the 9/11 investigations - were traced back to US military stock. Soon after the attacks began in October 2001, the FBI approved the destruction of the original samples of the Ames strain, disposing of perhaps the most important evidence in identifying the source of the pathogens used in the mailings. Were the anthrax attacks timed to coincide with the Afghanistan invasion? Why were the letters sent only to media figures and to the leaders of the opposition in the Senate (who had just raised objections to the USA PATRIOT Act)?
18) The Stonewall
a. Colin Powell promised a "white paper" from the State Department to establish the authorship of the attacks by al-Qaeda. This was never forthcoming, and was instead replaced by a paper from Tony Blair, which presented only circumstantial evidence, with very few points actually relating to September 11th.
b. Bush and Cheney pressured the (freshly-anthraxed) leadership of the Congressional opposition into delaying the 9/11 investigation for months. The administration fought against the creation of an independent investigation for more than a year.
c. The White House thereupon attempted to appoint Henry Kissinger as the chief investigator, and acted to underfund and obstruct the 9/11 Commission.

19) A Record of Official Lies
a. "No one could have imagined planes into buildings" - a transparent falsehood upheld repeatedly by Rice, Rumsfeld and Bush.
b. "Iraq was connected to 9/11" - The most "outrageous conspiracy theory" of all, with the most disastrous impact.
20) Pakistani Connection - Congressional Connection
a. The Pakistani intelligence agency ISI, creator of the Taliban and close ally to both the CIA and "al-Qaeda," allegedly wired $100,000 to Mohamed Atta just prior to September 11th, reportedly through the ISI asset Omar Saeed Sheikh (later arrested for the killing of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, who was investigating ISI connections to "al-Qaeda.")
b. This was ignored by the congressional 9/11 investigation, although the senator and congressman who ran the probe (Bob Graham and Porter Goss) were meeting with the ISI chief, Mahmud Ahmed, on Capitol Hill on the morning of September 11th.
c. About 25 percent of the report of the Congressional Joint Inquiry was redacted, including long passages regarding how the attack (or the network allegedly behind it) was financed. Graham later said foreign allies were involved in financing the alleged terror network, but that this would only come out in 30 years.
21) Unanswered Questions and the "Final Fraud" of the 9/11 Commission:
a. The September 11th families who fought for and gained an independent investigation (the 9/11 Commission) posed 400-plus questions, which the 9/11 Commission adopted as its roadmap. The vast majority of these questions were completely ignored in the Commission hearings and the final report.
b. The membership and staff of the 9/11 Commission displayed awesome conflicts of interest. The families called for the resignation of Executive Director Philip Zelikow, a Bush administration member and close associate of "star witness" Condoleezza Rice, and were snubbed. Commission member Max Cleland resigned, condemning the entire exercise as a "scam" and "whitewash."
c.The 9/11 Commission Report is notable mainly for its obvious omissions, distortions and outright falsehoods - ignoring anything incompatible with the official story, banishing the issues to footnotes, and even dismissing the still-unresolved question of who financed 9/11 as being "of little practical significance."

22) Crown Witnesses Held at Undisclosed Locations
The alleged masterminds of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohamed (KSM) and Ramzi Binalshibh, are reported to have been captured in 2002 and 2003, although one Pakistani newspaper said KSM was killed in an attempted capture. They have been held at undisclosed locations and their supposed testimonies, as provided in transcript form by the government, form much of the basis for The 9/11 Commission Report (although the Commission''s request to see them in person was denied). After holding them for years, why doesn''t the government produce these men and put them to trial?

23) Spitzer Redux
a. Eliot Spitzer, attorney general of New York State, snubbed pleas by New York citizens to open 9/11 as a criminal case (Justicefor911.org).
b. Spitzer also refused to allow his employee, former 9/11 Commission staff member Dietrich Snell, to testify to the Congress about his (Snell''s) role in keeping "Able Danger" entirely out of The 9/11 Commission Report.
24) NIST Omissions
After the destruction of the WTC structural steel, the official Twin Towers collapse investigation was left with almost no forensic evidence, and thus could only provide dubious computer models of ultimately unprovable hypotheses. It failed to even test for the possibility of explosives. (Why not clear this up?)

25) Radio Silence
The 9/11 Commission and NIST both allowed the continuing cover-up of how Motorola''s faulty radios, purchased by the Giuliani administration, caused firefighter deaths at the WTC - once again showing the expendability, even of the first responders.
26) The Legal Catch-22
a. Hush Money - Accepting victims'' compensation barred September 11th families from pursuing discovery through litigation.
b. Judge Hallerstein - Those who refused compensation to pursue litigation and discovery had their cases consolidated under the same judge (and as a rule dismissed).

27) Saudi Connections
a. The 9/11 investigations made light of the "Bin Ladin Airlift" during the no-fly period, and ignored the long-standing Bush family business ties to the Bin Ladin family fortune. (A company in which both families held interests, the Carlyle Group, was holding its annual meeting on September 11th, with George Bush Sr., James Baker, and two brothers of Osama Bin Ladin in attendance.)
b. The issue of Ptech.
28) Media Blackout of Prominent Doubters
The official story has been questioned and many of the above points were raised by members of the US Congress, retired high-ranking officers of the US military, the three leading third-party candidates for President in the 2004 election, a member of the 9/11 Commission who resigned in protest, a former high-ranking adviser to the George W. Bush administration, former ministers to the German, British and Canadian governments, the commander-in-chief of the Russian air force, 100 luminaries who signed the "9/11 Truth Statement," and the presidents of Iran and Venezuela. Not all of these people agree fully with each other, but all would normally be considered newsworthy. Why has the corporate-owned US mass media remained silent about these statements, granting due coverage only to the comments of actor Charlie Sheen?


GEOPOLITICS, TIMING AND POSSIBLE MOTIVES
29) "The Great Game"
The Afghanistan invasion was ready for Bush''s go-ahead on September 9, 2001, with US and UK force deployments to the region already in place or underway. This followed the failure earlier that year of backdoor diplomacy with the Taliban (including payments of $125 million in US government aid to Afghanistan), in an attempt to secure a unity government for that country as a prerequisite to a Central Asian pipeline deal.
30) The Need for a "New Pearl Harbor"
Principals in US foreign policy under the current Bush administration (including Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle and others) have been instrumental in developing long-running plans for worldwide military hegemony, including an invasion of the Middle East, dating back to the Ford, Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations. They reiterated these plans in the late 1990s as members of the "Project for a New American Century," and stated a clear intent to invade Iraq for the purpose of "regime change." After 9/11, they lost no time in their attempt to tie Iraq to the attacks.
31) Perpetual "War on Terror"
9/11 is supposed to provide carte-blanche for an open-ended, global and perpetual "War on Terror," against any enemy, foreign or domestic, that the executive branch chooses to designate, and regardless of whether evidence exists to actually connect these enemies to 9/11.
32) Attacking the Constitution
a. The USA PATRIOT Act was written before 9/11, Homeland Security and the "Shadow Government" were developed long before 9/11, and plans for rounding up dissidents as a means for suppressing civil disturbance have been in the works for decades.
b. 9/11 was used as the pretext to create a new, extra-constitutional executive authority to declare anyone an "enemy combatant" (including American citizens), to detain persons indefinitely without habeas corpus, and to "render" such persons to secret prisons where torture is practiced.
33) Legal Trillions
9/11 triggers a predictable shift of public spending to war, and boosts public and private spending in the "new" New Economy of "Homeland Security," biometrics, universal surveillance, prisons, civil defense, secured enclaves, security, etc.

34) Plundered Trillions?
On September 10, 2001, Donald Rumsfeld announced a "war on waste" after an internal audit found that the Pentagon was "missing" 2.3 trillion dollars in unaccounted assets. On September 11th, this was as good as forgotten.
35) Did 9/11 prevent a stock market crash?
Did anyone benefit from the destruction of the Securities and Exchange Commission offices at WTC 7, and the resultant crippling of hundreds of fraud investigations?
36) Resource Wars
a. What was discussed in the Energy Task Force meetings under Dick Cheney in 2001? Why is the documentation of these meetings still being suppressed?
b. Is Peak Oil a motive for 9/11 as inside job?
37) The "Little Game"
Why was the WTC privatized just before its destruction?


HISTORY
38) "Al-CIA-da?"
The longstanding relationship between US intelligence networks and radical Islamists, including the network surrounding Osama Bin Ladin. (See also point 13d.)

39) Historical Precedents for "Synthetic Terror"
a. In the past many states, including the US government, have sponsored attacks on their own people, fabricated the "cause for war," created (and armed) their own enemies of convenience, and sacrificed their own citizens for "reasons of state."
b. Was 9/11 an update of the Pentagon-approved "Project Northwoods" plan for conducting self-inflicted, false-flag terror attacks in the United States, and blaming them on a foreign enemy?

40) Secret Government
a. The record of criminality and sponsorship of coups around the world by the covert networks based within the US intelligence complex.
b. Specifically also: The evidence of crime by Bush administration principals and their associates, from October Surprise to Iran-Contra and the S&L plunder to PNAC, Enron/Halliburton and beyond.
 

Tez3

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anyone that thinks 9-11 was an inside job is a .................wrong,

not just wrong but more wrong than has been recorded in the history of being wrong

they are wrong on a level approaching epic wrongness.

there is no possible way it could have been an inside job

for no other reason than this:

the us government is 100% incapable of keeping a secret


i normally call truthers barking loon's and go off on rants of epic and biblical proportions, but i am trying to cut back on my rants in accordance with the new rules round these parts.....

I hope you are happy Bob......oh the headache i am gonna have for not going off on this topic....

Love the Blackadderism!
 

Big Don

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First, kindly refer to this BRILLIANT post.
I will make it even easier for you...here is a list of all the reasons to doubt the OFFICIAL STORY of 9/11


It is well documented that the officials topping the chain of command for response to a domestic attack - George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Myers, Montague Winfield - all found reason to do something else during the actual attacks, other than assuming their duties as decision-makers.
They have these wonderful inventions called cellular telephones... No, no one was out of touch. The President of the United States is NEVER more than 60 seconds from a phone.
How was it possible the Pentagon was hit 1 hour and 20 minutes after the attacks began? Why was there no response from Andrews Air Force Base, just 10 miles away and home to Air National Guard units charged with defending the skies above the nation''s capital? How did Hani Hanjour, a man who failed as a Cessna pilot on his first flight in a Boeing, execute a difficult aerobatic maneuver to strike the Pentagon? Why did the attack strike the just-renovated side, which was largely empty and opposite from the high command?
Because no one in their right mind, except conspiracy theorists, which leaves out the, in their right mind bit, would shoot down a commercial passenger plane full of people, especially over a major metropolitan area.
What caused the collapse of a third skyscraper, WTC 7, which was not hit by a plane?
There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.

Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."

Did 9/11 prevent a stock market crash?
No, the stock market crashed that day, and stayed down for MONTHS.
Did cell phones work at 30,000 feet in 2001?
Cell phones work on radio signals, the signals spread out in a sphere, as no part of 30000 feet is farther than the 40 miles which cell phones can be from a tower, YES, basic 3d grade science says yes. Secondly, it wasn't cell phones from the passenger's pockets, IIRC, but rather the $5 a min airphones from the seatbacks in the plane. Cost concerns don't matter much when you're about to die...
The USA PATRIOT Act was written before 9/11, Homeland Security and the "Shadow Government" were developed long before 9/11
Bovine Feces. Patently untrue.
Media Blackout of Prominent Doubters
The obviously insane are often ignored in polite conversation.
In conclusion, Oh for ****'s sake, not this stupid **** AGAIN.

 
Last edited:

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Dude..use the search function.

This topic has been beaten to death here.
 

Makalakumu

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I think it was an inside job in some way. There are too many people who knew explicit details of what was happening before and at the time of the attacks to say it was just another government SNAFU. The official story is incredulous and extraordinary does not stand up to scrutiny, even to people who believe that 19 hijackers were responsible.

Does this mean that I believe every conspiracy theory out there about 9/11? No. Sure, most of it is speculation and ********. We have everything from no planes and lasers from space to twelve headed reptile aliens, but that's the nature of the beast. Topics like this attract paranoid craziness. It's a mistake and a fallacy to lump everything in with the nutters, though.

Sometimes crazy stuff is real. And sometimes governments do bad things to their citizens to manipulate them. That happens for real.

I support an independent investigation of the facts by people who are willing to look at every shred of evidence and are willing to share every shred of evidence with anyone who would like to double check. Despite the assertions to the contrary, we have not had an investigation like this. Freedom of information acts have been and are being denied because of national security reasons or the evidence has simply been destroyed. The rational response is to BE skeptical in this situation.
 

Bob Hubbard

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Define inside job.

If we're talking down to the minute detailed whowhatwherewhen, then no.

If we're talking dereliction of duty, leaving defenses down over a period of time, and basically inviting an attack, then yet.

It's called creating a reason for war, and the US government has a proven track record of doing just that. But don't take my word for it. I'm just a loon.
:D
 
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