white gi vs black gi
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mwd0818
Green Belt
In the early days everyone wore white uniforms. The black uniform was introduced as part of the commercialization of the art for various reasons. One of those reasons was to give students an incentive, and the black uniform was "available" to everyone to wear at brown according to the published guidelines. Another reason was based on teaching requirements at the brown belt level. The black uniform gave the illusion of many teachers on the floor, and made a distinction between "assistant instructors/instructors," and lower division students. For most the distinction of wearing a black uniform was a big deal. However Mr. Parker never demanded anyone follow any of his guidelines. Therefore many "old schoolers" preferred to stay in white, most notably Mr. Bob White's Crew who always took a lot of pride in their well groomed sparkling white uniforms, as they beat the crap out of you in competition.
Many tails have been spun about various so-called traditions, but most of the reasons were very pragmatic at their roots. I recall someone asking in a group about why the belt knot is worn on one side for men, and another for women. I heard stories of Chinese Sash mimicking, and respect to your teacher who wore his in the center, and challenges to your teacher if you do the same. All kinds of "traditions and stories." The truth was much more pragmatic. At the time the commercial schools begin to take off in the late sixties, long/big hair was the fashion. And as more women poured into the schools, it was discovered that it was often difficult to tell male from female in a uniform. The placement of the belt knot solved the problem, and created another "Kenpo Tradition." "If you concentrate on the finger, you miss all the heavenly gwory."
Damnit Doc . . . I've spent the last 20 minutes trying to find that picture of you in the "old days". Can't find it on this computer . . . Was trying to find the "big hair" pic . . .
OP
suicide
Black Belt
Doc
Senior Master
Close call.
Doc
Senior Master
yeah : we ! why ?
when i say we i feel part of the kenpo brotherhood is there a problem with that ? im just a nobody that identifies with other kenpo practitioners...
Nothing wrong with that. Your problem is you are taking your Kenpo "experience" or understanding and projecting it as if everyone else does, understands, or has the same experience as you. I'm a Kenpo nobody whose been lucky to live long enough to know better, and stay away from collective pronouns.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
uh, Doc?
I know that SGM Parker was a very devout LDS.
LDS temple garb IS knotted on the sides, different for men and women.
While i gnerally dont beleive ANYTHING that the Tracy's post about Mr Parker, I am thinking they might be right when they say that the LDS garb is the origin of the side knots. it might just be a coincidence, but there it is.
I know that SGM Parker was a very devout LDS.
LDS temple garb IS knotted on the sides, different for men and women.
While i gnerally dont beleive ANYTHING that the Tracy's post about Mr Parker, I am thinking they might be right when they say that the LDS garb is the origin of the side knots. it might just be a coincidence, but there it is.
mwd0818
Green Belt
Doc
Senior Master
Especially since we have one Marine Corps Scout/Sniper, and two SWAT Snipers in the group.
Doc
Senior Master
When you start believing the Tracy's on anything, it's a slippery slope. Mr. Parker to my knowledge NEVER mixed his religion with his kenpo teaching. In fact he went so far as to tell me, that "..it would be stupid to do so,.." and ultimately "bad for business." The placement of the knot idea came directly from Tom Kelly and mirrored the dichotomy of the cultural influences of the art. A Chinese Art in origin, that wore a Japanese uniform, and earlier had adopted some Japanese customs before they were dropped. The Chinese wear the sash to the side, and the Japanese wear the belt in the middle. The Tracy's were not the first, or last, to create a back story to something that fit their own agenda. I was constantly bombarded with questions of how Parker got along with "Blacks" because of the vicious rumors of him being "sexist," and "racist" because of his church affiliation. The simplest way I had of countering the lies and rumors was to simply take the person to Mr. Parker, introduce them, and walk away.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
makes sense to me, but the coincidence is there.
Doc
Senior Master
Yeah, and according to the Tracy's, Parker was a sexist because there were no women in the schools. Of course any self-defense school where guys consistently beat the crap out of each other and ooze testosterone, blood, and issue bruises as a matter of course, could be called "sexist." After all, there won't be many women enrolled. What a coincidence.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I've heard this explanation before, and to be honest I think someone is trying to pull our collective leg on this one. I just do not find it believable. Long/Big hair not withstanding, I simply cannot believe it was that difficult to tell a man from a woman once you put them in a gi, even from behind.
On top of that, I don't think women really became prevalent in a martial arts school until the 1980s, and even then it took a long time for them to make up a large percentage of the student population. I suspect the women in the dojos of the 1960s and 1970s were still fairly rare, and I am sure everyone in the dojo knew who was who, especially when it came to the female students in an otherwise testosterone laden activity.
My suspicion is that Mr. Parker simply wanted to establish a tradition that would distinguish him and his students from the masses. Nothing wrong with that.
I think I must have missed that information.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
sorry, i meant thier first uniform is black. They start is sweats and a t=shirt.
they can, eventually, if they survive, get a white uniform
I read because white was usually a Japanese art, since our system comes from the Sil Lum system, which is Chinese, that is why we wear black.
Besides, Good Guys Wear Black
Milt G.
Purple Belt
Hello,
Sadly, too many on the ground floor of Kenpo appear to have an agenda of some sort...
Perhaps the reason it is so difficult to get any REALLY factual accounts of anything that happened. And if you really were given fact, how would you know it???
It is just sad... Sad for the students and sad for Kenpo.
Thanks,
Milt G.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
In Kenpo schools that allow white uniforms, it's usually the opposite.
Traditionally speaking...white represents purity. Black usually represents a "war art" as black represents bruising and even death...
"Kenpo" is not about fighting fair... it's about doing what is necessary to survive, and that (more often than not) is some pretty dirty stuff.
At any rate, as I understand it... black was chosen to differentiate kenpo from other, more traditional arts...
Besides, if you wear black gi's then you don't have to wash them as often and that don't show blood stains nearly as bad as a white gi! LOL
Doc
Senior Master
You're free to "believe" what you want, but then, you weren't there when these things went on, and decisions made. I've personally visited schools where I couldn't tell the difference with the long hair and big "fro"s" shared by men and women, especially if they are slight of build, AND you don't know them personally.
"You don't think." I don't know if you've done a statistical breakdown of all the Ed Parker Lineage kenpo Schools, or not, but I can tell you from my personal experiences we had lots of women in the early seventies. Hell the Yellow Belt and its techniques was created for them in the late sixties because of their numbers.
"I don't believe," Someone is pulling your leg." "My suspicion." Trouble is you don't KNOW anything but like to speak with authority even though you were not there, but entitled to your opinion you are, no matter how you come to your conclusions.
I read because white was usually a Japanese art, since our system comes from the Sil Lum system, which is Chinese, that is why we wear black.
Besides, Good Guys Wear Black
The kenpo tradition in the Mitose and Chow schools was to have students wear white, and instructors wear black. Kajukenbo followed that tradition in it's early years.
Then around 1958 Sijo had everyone in Kajukenbo wear black gi's. Sijo just told me that he thought the black gi's "looked bad", and that wearing black made the Kajukenbo group instantly recognized at tournaments and martial arts events. It became our trademark at the time.
Later in the late 60's when Kajukenbo started to adapt more Chinese techniques into the development of the Chuan Fa and Wun Hop Kuen Do branches, we started replacing our Japanese terminology with Chinese terminology also. That's when the black gi's were said to be related to our Chinese roots. That sounds more philosophical then admitting that black gi's just look "bad ***".
