Which martial art should I take?

JohnnyEnglish

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If I am fighting 4 or more men, there only exists the will to survive. If running is not an option available, but soccer kicking a downed opponents in the temple for a KO, increases my survival likely hood, guess who is going night-night?

Your desire to be a gentlemen while fighting is interesting. Taken to its final and logical conclusion...war has no morality. Kill or be killed.
Maiming and subdual maybe be preferably to killing, with regard to legal ramifications.

My concern, when society fails, when SHTF, and civil unrest becomes criminal anarchy or civil war...

And you are trapped in a situation where you have to fight for your life....
How will your "morality" affect your training methods?

If You train with values that undermine your fighting ability, dont be surprised that your art will not serve you well in the real world test.

Any fight avoided is a win.
Any fight lost, that was in a "just cause", and that you live through is a win.
Any fight in which you die, but your actions gave time for others to successfully flee and live, is a win.
Any fight, that gets you killed, for an unjust cause, Is a loss.
Any fight that you survive, but does not make you improve, is a loss.

Looks like you have a massive issue to understand that competitions are not a self-defense situation. I've already been saying that I don't like kicking people on the ground in general, but would do so if the self-defense situation is very serious and also, I doubt you have the time to hit or kick somebody on the ground while being attacked by 4 people. You know, it's not like in a hollywood movie where they wait and attack you one after an other. They all will have a go at you, at the same time !!

Please do your reading more focused before you claim this type of stuff. I might have morality, and I am a gentleman when it comes to competitions and also to SD situations, but I also know when I have to fight " dirty ", and when as you claim, there are more than one people attacking me, + maybe have the motivation to kill me, I for sure will do everything to get them out the way, if this includes kicking somebody on the ground so he can't stand up, pull his knife and run after me, I'll do so !

I also feel highly insulted by your little list you wrote down there, I am not a 13 years old child which believes Karate tiger 3 is real. I am a clean and good citizen of a European country, I know very well what and how to avoid things and when and how to react.


PS: If you seriously believe in kicking somebody on the ground will bring you further, you are wrong. Every decent judge will send you to jail for non-necessary force against an attacker, at least here in the UK. In the most cases you even have to demonstrate exactly what you've done, and it does not seem good if you kick after somebody already on the ground. Trust me.


I don't know WHO you are and I don't know WHERE you live and I also don't know what your status/position in any martial art is, but this is a thing every student has to learn the first day. Only use as much force as necessary, and kicking somebody is NOT a necessary, NOT in the most self-defense cases.
 

Tez3

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PS: If you seriously believe in kicking somebody on the ground will bring you further, you are wrong. Every decent judge will send you to jail for non-necessary force against an attacker, at least here in the UK.

Are you now an expert on the law here because I have to tell you that you are not correct. I really do understand the law better than you, trust me.

You really cannot say it's wrong to kick someone who is on the ground and then say this........

I for sure will do everything to get them out the way, if this includes kicking somebody on the ground so he can't stand up, pull his knife and run after me, I'll do so !
 

JohnnyEnglish

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Are you now an expert on the law here because I have to tell you that you are not correct. I really do understand the law better than you, trust me.

You really cannot say it's wrong to kick someone who is on the ground and then say this........



Under the law you are entitled to use reasonable force in self-defence or to protect another person or your property.

The force that it is reasonable to use in any situation will depend on the threat that you are facing. For example, the level of force that you can use to defend your life is greater than the force you can use to defend your property.

What 'reasonable force' is will depend on the circumstances of each case and is something that only the courts can decide. This does not mean that if you injure a criminal while defending yourself or your property you will necessarily face criminal charges. But if the criminal complains that you have used unreasonable force, the police must investigate.

In the heat of the moment and in a panic it may be hard for you to assess the level of danger that you face. However, if charges are brought against you, the courts take account of what was reasonable for you in those circumstances - they will make some allowances for 'heat of the moment' panic.

The courts believe that if you did only what you honestly and instinctively thought necessary to prevent a crime, that would be strong evidence that you used only reasonable force. Generally, the courts use common sense and take account of what it is like to be faced with a violent or possibly violent criminal.

The law does not allow you to retaliate. Punishing criminals is a matter for the courts and you must not take the law into your own hands by trying to punish an offender for a crime committed against you, your friends, or your family.

PS: Again you prove that you were not focused on reading all my comments. I always said it is WRONG from a morally point. So in a competition and even in a self-defense situation I think it is morally wrong to use kicks or punches against someone who is already on the ground! But in a case where it comes to survive or don't survive, you are for sure allowed to use all necessary force to rescue your or participants lifes.
 

Tez3

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Under the law you are entitled to use reasonable force in self-defence or to protect another person or your property.

The force that it is reasonable to use in any situation will depend on the threat that you are facing. For example, the level of force that you can use to defend your life is greater than the force you can use to defend your property.

What 'reasonable force' is will depend on the circumstances of each case and is something that only the courts can decide. This does not mean that if you injure a criminal while defending yourself or your property you will necessarily face criminal charges. But if the criminal complains that you have used unreasonable force, the police must investigate.

In the heat of the moment and in a panic it may be hard for you to assess the level of danger that you face. However, if charges are brought against you, the courts take account of what was reasonable for you in those circumstances - they will make some allowances for 'heat of the moment' panic.

The courts believe that if you did only what you honestly and instinctively thought necessary to prevent a crime, that would be strong evidence that you used only reasonable force. Generally, the courts use common sense and take account of what it is like to be faced with a violent or possibly violent criminal.

The law does not allow you to retaliate. Punishing criminals is a matter for the courts and you must not take the law into your own hands by trying to punish an offender for a crime committed against you, your friends, or your family.

PS: Again you prove that you were not focused on reading all my comments. I always said it is WRONG from a morally point. So in a competition and even in a self-defense situation I think it is morally wrong to use kicks or punches against someone who is already on the ground! But in a case where it comes to survive or don't survive, you are for sure allowed to use all necessary force to rescue your or participants lifes.


Does the expression 'coals to Newcastle' have any resonance for you?

As you didn't write the above I assume you won't know that parts of it are incorrect. I have highlighted them for you. The first sentence is a nonsense frankly, the police investigate whether or not anyone complains when there has been an incident. In this country we don't 'bring charges against you', you may be arrested and you may be charged, whether it goes to court is the decision of the CPS. In the cases of genuine self defence it won't go to court, the CPS will decide. They will tell you not genuine case has gone to court, some very iffy ones have which have turned out not to be genuine have however.
 

JohnnyEnglish

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Does the expression 'coals to Newcastle' have any resonance for you?

As you didn't write the above I assume you won't know that parts of it are incorrect. I have highlighted them for you. The first sentence is a nonsense frankly, the police investigate whether or not anyone complains when there has been an incident. In this country we don't 'bring charges against you', you may be arrested and you may be charged, whether it goes to court is the decision of the CPS. In the cases of genuine self defence it won't go to court, the CPS will decide. They will tell you not genuine case has gone to court, some very iffy ones have which have turned out not to be genuine have however.

It does not change the FACT that force used in a self-defense situation, can be a very broad field. From reasonable to unreasonable.

I might not be in the mood to google and link everything I say to prove I am right, but you can ask every martial arts instructor or even Police Officer to backup what I just said.

NO judge in the UK, will lock you up for kicking somebody in the face who just tried to kill you with a knife. Not if you have a good argument for WHY you kicked this person in the face while being on ground.

Discussion closed.
 

Tez3

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Now you made me laugh :woot::woot::woot::woot::woot::woot::woot::woot::D:D:D:D


Yes it's very funny being a martial arts instructing police officer, kept me amused for over 20 years. Luckily I'm retired now. All that laughter could have been the death of me.
 

JohnnyEnglish

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Yes it's very funny being a martial arts instructing police officer, kept me amused for over 20 years. Luckily I'm retired now. All that laughter could have been the death of me.

This makes me very happy and feel much safer that you are retired now. I would not want to live in a world where you are actually having the force of an officer.

Enjoy your retirement ;)
 

JowGaWolf

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Hello guys, I'm 5,5ft and 181lb. But I'm not fat, my body is rather bulky (i'm not doing gym by the way). I'm very used to cardio exercises as I'm a pro in badminton. But I know that I can't be very flexible and swift, my agility is average and i'm pretty powerful. So what should I choose I have these options around my home: taekwondo, karate, aikido, judo, muaythai, vovinam, kickboxing, aikibudo. I want to train and stick seriously but I don't want to change my body (ex: become thinner). I imagine myself to be strong and tough, not really needed to be fast or flexible :D that is just my imagination I really need advice. Thank you very much!

The first thing that you should ask yourself is what do you want to get from martial arts. All martial arts are not the same and some are better as a sport than others. Also not all martial arts will make you thin. If you are looking to get stronger then you need to do a martial art that is big on conditioning and even then the type of strength that you build will not be the same for all martial arts. Traditional martial arts are often a good choice because they include the physical conditioning. I take a traditional Kung Fu called Jow Ga Kung Fu and we are like fighting beasts but only because of the conditioning that we do. I weigh 200 pounds but I move just as smoothly as someone that is 150 pounds.
My legs and forearms are really strong and literally tough, but my grip strength is less than someone who does Judo and who is grabbing all the time. Taekwondo may not be the martial arts for you if you are looking to be strong and tough. Most Taekwondo martial arts are taught as a sport and often lack the elements that make you "Strong and tough" Out of the ones that you listed. A traditional Karate School may be the best choice for Strong and Tough. They are all about withstanding a hit and giving a stronger hit back.
 

Tez3

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This makes me very happy and feel much safer that you are retired now. I would not want to live in a world where you are actually having the force of an officer.

Enjoy your retirement ;)

Mmm I think your posts speak for themselves.
 

JohnnyEnglish

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Mmm I think your posts speak for themselves.

Yeah it does, same as your " following my comments on other topics and disliking them even if there is actually nothing to dislike " speaks for itself.

I am sorry to say this, but you are a joke. This is why I will ignore you in future, BUT it was nice that you entertained me for a while.

Good luck !
 

TSDTexan

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Looks like you have a massive issue to understand that competitions are not a self-defense situation. I've already been saying that I don't like kicking people on the ground in general, but would do so if the self-defense situation is very serious and also, I doubt you have the time to hit or kick somebody on the ground while being attacked by 4 people. You know, it's not like in a hollywood movie where they wait and attack you one after an other. They all will have a go at you, at the same time !!

Please do your reading more focused before you claim this type of stuff. I might have morality, and I am a gentleman when it comes to competitions and also to SD situations, but I also know when I have to fight " dirty ", and when as you claim, there are more than one people attacking me, + maybe have the motivation to kill me, I for sure will do everything to get them out the way, if this includes kicking somebody on the ground so he can't stand up, pull his knife and run after me, I'll do so !

I also feel highly insulted by your little list you wrote down there, I am not a 13 years old child which believes Karate tiger 3 is real. I am a clean and good citizen of a European country, I know very well what and how to avoid things and when and how to react.


PS: If you seriously believe in kicking somebody on the ground will bring you further, you are wrong. Every decent judge will send you to jail for non-necessary force against an attacker, at least here in the UK. In the most cases you even have to demonstrate exactly what you've done, and it does not seem good if you kick after somebody already on the ground. Trust me.


I don't know WHO you are and I don't know WHERE you live and I also don't know what your status/position in any martial art is, but this is a thing every student has to learn the first day. Only use as much force as necessary, and kicking somebody is NOT a necessary, NOT in the most self-defense cases.

Well, I grew up on the mean streets of very large city in Texas. I have been in street fights with multiple attackers of a street gang. From actually having survived these I can speak from experience, if you learn how to fight strategically, it makes numbers a reduced issue.

Learn how to use doorways as a chokepoint, or escalate by moving the fight into vehicle traffic on a street. A useful skill for breaking contact with aggressors.

But you are missing the main point. Your competition mindset can, and most likely will deeply affect how you will fight in a real fight.

This is something many sport fighters such as yourself never seem to understand.
 
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JohnnyEnglish

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Well, I grew up on the mean streets of very large city in Texas. I have been in street fights with multiple attackers of a street gang. From actually having survived these I can speak from experience, if you learn how to fight strategically, it makes numbers a reduced issue.

Learn how to use doorways as a chokepoint, or escalate by moving the fight into vehicle traffic on a street. A useful skill for breaking contact with aggressors.

Correct, but this was not the issue I had with your post. My issue was, that you tried to adapt my statement about COMPETITIONS in to my statement about Self-Defense in a real life situation, which was an other statement!

That's all. I don't question your actual knowledge.
 
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