I live on the island I’m looking for old school Japanese jiu jitsu not a watered down version of anything
Ok thanks for the advice, anywhere I should start? I’m looking for combative reality with some hints of cultural aspects and and historical authenticityThere's a couple of issues you're going to have to deal with... firstly, there's no such (single) thing as "Japanese jujutsu" (and, for that matter, there's no such thing as "Japanese Jiu-Jitsu"... that's a whole other conversation), especially if you're looking for "old school". These are what we refer to as "Koryu" (almost literally "old school"), which is a categorisation applied to schools that were founded during the time of the samurai (before the Westernisation of Japan that began with the Meiji Restoration of around 1868), and have continued in a continuous practice.
These schools are specific traditions, meaning that you would study a specific koryu (similar to your request for Goju Ryu, rather than a generic "karate"), which may contain some jujutsu methods, may be based primarily around it, or have none at all. Considering the history of the samurai, the majority of koryu are weapons-based, or, at least, weapons-centric... and, even those who have a lot of jujutsu, or are jujutsu-based, will also have commonly a pretty healthy weapons contingent to their practice.
These schools are also quite small, and often private affairs, with some being kept in one location, with one teacher only (in the world), so finding one in a convenient location to yourself is highly unlikely. Even if a school has branch dojo outside of Japan, they aren't likely to be common (say, if you want to study Takeuchi Ryu Bitchu-den, a line of the "oldest" jujutsu-centric school in Japan, you would need to be in Hawaii, Canada, the UK, or one of two locations in Japan... if you want the Honke or Sodenke lines, then there are no branch dojo outside of Japan at all! Oh, and the school teaches jujutsu, known as hade there, as well as kogusoku/dagger, kenjutsu/sword, iai/sword drawing, bo/staff, naginata/halberd, jo/short staff, kasa/umbrella, hojo/arresting cord, and items such as cooking pot lids... so referring to it as a "jujutsu school" is quite misleading). Even a more "jujutsu" school, such as Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu, is not easy to find... there's a teacher in Sydney (Australia), and a branch for Europe headed in the UK... but the current head is no longer accepting any Westerners as students, due to the lack of proper action of some prior members, unfortunately. There are a couple of other lines of the school, but they have no groups outside of Japan.
But, let's say you find something nearby (and is practical for you)... do you know what you're actually asking for? Koryu are as much cultural arts as anything else, as well as being historically political and religious entities, which tie into the way they are taught and trained, making any number of aspects of the practice being less about combative reality than some other, arguably more important, lessons (not to say they're not combatively realistic, but that needs to be tempered with an understanding of the context in the first place). Transmission of the schools teachings are primarily via kata-geiko (the practice of pre-determined actions, in koryu, typically involving two or more practitioners, taking the role of "attacker" and "defender", to give a simplified explanation). While a number of schools may include a style of free-form practice, it doesn't really resemble "sparring" as it is commonly seen and done in modern, typically sporting arts (karate, bjj, judo, tkd, etc). In fact, very little resembles modern arts... so be aware of what you are looking for.
You mention that you are after "old school" Japanese arts, rather than "a watered down version of anything"... to be honest, there's little that I can think of that would match that description, other than a kids class syllabus... however, there are a variety of different approaches that can be presented as being "Japanese jujutsu"... and most of them aren't. We've looked at koryu, which would be the most authentic form you could find, but there are also gendai (modern) jujutsu arts. Most of these aren't called jujutsu, with the most popular being Kodokan Judo and Aikido, but you also have Daito Ryu Aikijutsu, and it's off-shoots, such as Hakko Ryu. Then, you have a range of Western arts that are derived from these arts, such as Danzan Ryu, Hakkei Ryu, Hakko Denshin Ryu, and so on. These are what I would call "quasi-Japanese jujutsu" arts, and are often lacking in a number of facets to consider them actual Japanese arts. And, you have a range of modern, Western arts who have little to no basis in proper arts, and are a combination of imitation judo, aikido, and fantasy. These are "pseudo-Japanese arts" at best, and the least consistent in their practice... but gain students through their matching peoples imagination.
So, the real question is, what are you looking for in a jujutsu system? Historical authenticity? Cultural aspects? Combative reality? Competition? Have you looked into "old school Japanese jujutsu" already?
Well, I mean, it's a historically accurate translation for the first decades of the 20th Century. Blame the translators and the difficulty of anglicizing into english-ish phonetic spelling.(and, for that matter, there's no such thing as "Japanese Jiu-Jitsu"... that's a whole other conversation),
Well, it's not Koryu but a lot of Judoka, particularly those interested in the "early versions" of it (prior to emphasis on Olympic Judo), like to talk about "Kano-ha."Most of these aren't called jujutsu, with the most popular being Kodokan Judo
"Jujutsu" is a general name for a huge, somewhat inter-related, family of combative systems originating in Japan. The koryu systems which Chris refers to are members of that family which were created prior to 1868 and have been passed on in something resembling their original technical forms along with a whole batch of cultural baggage which you may not be interested in unless you are a big fan of pre-modern Japanese culture. These arts are what Chris would typically describe as "traditional."there's no such (single) thing as "Japanese jujutsu"
If you examine the many, many members of the international jujutsu family diaspora (including those which do or do not call themselves jujutsu and/or Japanese) you will find a huge range of quality. There will usually be a significant overlap in technical curriculum, but the quality of what is taught and the actual combative ability demonstrated by practitioners can range from excellent to abysmal. However in my experience this variation does not correlate at all to how closely an art is tied to Japan, whether it was created there or if it's six generations removed. It has a lot more to do with how the art is trained and what kind of combative experience the instructors and the practitioners have.I’m looking for old school Japanese jiu jitsu not a watered down version of anything
I'm not going to derail Scotty's thread with the long-standing debate about the value of sparring and related forms of live training. Scotty, if you're interested you can find countless arguments regarding that subject on this site and elsewhere.Practitioners of sports arts will tell you that "combative reality" means only techniques they can test and practice in a competitive or sparring format... unfortunately, that's not reality, as it's simply a look at a single (non-realistic) context. To be clear, when I say they are non-realistic, I am commenting on the fact that the context is limited, and artificial. Now, to be fair, all safe practices of all arts are artificial to some degree, the question is always what compromises you allow, and what you don't.
To my mind, koryu are the most "combatively realistic" training forms around... mainly as their emphasis is not on "techniques that can be tested", as such tests are considered unnecessary for a range of reasons... instead, koryu emphasise combative mind-sets, principles, and habits over techniques. We focus on being aware of potential openings, when you're in danger, or not, what the distancing is, awareness of how that changes with weapons (of various forms), and so on.
There is a Sōsuishi Ryu Jujutsu Dojo in queens.I am looking for the whereabouts to both of those styles taught in the New York area close to Manhattan or Long Island.