Vital Point Striking in CMA

[Same Trick60 11]

The theory of shichen dates back about 600 years, passed on by Daoist priest Wu Liuyuan, and is based on a 12-hour cycle of blood flow with twelve 2 hr. periods named for the Chinese zodiac. During each of these periods a particular organ or part of the body (meridians) is more vulnerable to attack (or healing). The time of the Rat (11pm-1am) best for striking the gall bladder, the Snake (9-11am) for the spleen and so forth. I don't buy into it but allow a slim chance there may be some basis for it.

The theory of shichen dates back about 600 years, passed on by Daoist priest Wu Liuyuan, and is based on a 12-hour cycle of blood flow with twelve 2 hr. periods named for the Chinese zodiac. During each of these periods a particular organ or part of the body (meridians) is more vulnerable to attack (or healing). The time of the Rat (11pm-1am) best for striking the gall bladder, the Snake (9-11am) for the spleen and so forth. I don't buy into it but allow a slim chance there may be some basis for it.

Yes it might be so. Maybe it can be something as that the day moves on the blood flow kind of sink lower down in the body due to prolonged upright position ? Or blood want to sink down and organs must work at different rates as day goes, kind of ?
A fat unsophisticated guess
Are there any doctors here , help !

 

[Same Trick60 11]

Use to be someone on MT years ago that was fairly proficient at point strikes. But he has not posted here in years.

One of my Xingyiquan teachers like them, and trained us to use a phoenix eye fist. But we did not get into it much.

However, some of the claimed effects of these points is not exactly correct. Learned that from my wife, a TCM Doc from Beijing.

Example

Spoiler: Spoiler alert

the point Jet Li sticks a needle in the bad guys neck at the end of kiss of the dragon, it will not kill you, just make you very sick

I knew a Chinese lady who practiced TCM and she used/(use?) to stick needles in her own body to cure some misalignments she had she put those needles on her back looked extremely difficult and dangerous as things could go seriously wrong.
Maybe that MT dim mak guy fell victim of his own touch ?

 

[Xue Sheng108 25]

I knew a Chinese lady who practiced TCM and she used/(use?) to stick needles in her own body to cure some misalignments she had she put those needles on her back looked extremely difficult and dangerous as things could go seriously wrong.
Maybe that MT dim mak guy fell victim of his own touch ?

My wife does that. Puts needles on herself… not kill people.

 

[Wing Woo Gar50 11]

I've hade the fortune/putluck a couple of times in sparring with hitting spinning heel on that nerve spot. The first time I was surprised myself as it wasnt on purpose! And the opponent was not happy with it.

The best setup is to make them think you are aiming for the head, and their arms go up and then downard to the hip. The opponent immediately cant walk, but it lasts only for some minutes so no major harm done. It's spectactular and usually surprising, and it does not need to be hard.

l Iike to aim for it (but with low force), but the hit-rate is low. As I have trouble with headlevel kicks, that spot is always where i often aim spinning heels, unless its the lower thigh. the heel is quite large so the error margin to hig the nerve is probably +/- 2cm or so.

I think there is a corresponding nerves join for that arm in the shoulder area. all these joints one can find out for yourself if you poke aroung on yourself, when you hit the right spot you feel it sqeeuzes the nerve. Then imagine a hard knuckle strike there and you can imagine.

We dont learn these pressure points in kyokushin curriculum, but I like to expeeriment with them on my own. No reason to let a style limite experimentation.

I knew a Chinese lady who practiced TCM and she used/(use?) to stick needles in her own body to cure some misalignments she had she put those needles on her back looked extremely difficult and dangerous as things could go seriously wrong.
Maybe that MT dim mak guy fell victim of his own touch ?

The Mysterious Stranger?

 

[Wing Woo Gar50 11]

Does anyone know about the Mysterious Stranger? LOL!

 

[Same Trick60 11]

My wife does that. Puts needles on herself… not kill people.

the lady I knew wanted to practice on me, not that I distrusted her, I didn’t but I declined

 

[Same Trick60 11]

The Mysterious Stranger?

Unbelievable tales and undisclosed secrets

 

[Xue Sheng108 25]

the lady I knew wanted to practice on me, not that I distrusted her, I didn’t but I declined

I once told my wife about 2 points on my elbow that both Yang Jwing Ming and my taijiquan Shifu grabbed with 2 fingers, that cause pain. She said “you mean here” reach up, grabbed my elbow and hurt me the same exact way. I then asked her why do Chinese people insist on hurting me.

 

[HighKick]

I once told my wife about 2 points on my elbow that both Yang Jwing Ming and my taijiquan Shifu grabbed with 2 fingers, that cause pain. She said “you mean here” reach up, grabbed my elbow and hurt me the same exact way. I then asked her why do Chinese people insist on hurting me.

The pressure point on the outside of the elbow does work. But there are so many variables that can make it ineffective and downright high risk. Guy jacked up on cocaine/meth or arms thicker than my legs, forget about it.

 

[Xue Sheng108 25]

The pressure point on the outside of the elbow does work. But there are so many variables that can make it ineffective and downright high risk. Guy jacked up on cocaine/meth or arms thicker than my legs, forget about it.

Agreed, but did not seem to be a problem for Yang Jwing Ming, my shifu or my 5’2’ 100 lbs wife. And I am bigger than all of them, and lifted a lot of weight back in those days. It was two points, one outside the elbow, one inside, index finger and thumb pressure

 

[Wing Woo Gar50 11]

The pressure point on the outside of the elbow does work. But there are so many variables that can make it ineffective and downright high risk. Guy jacked up on cocaine/meth or arms thicker than my legs, forget about it.

I have one student who is seemingly unaffected by these, buy Dr Yang Jwing Ming proved to be quite able.

 

[Xue Sheng108 25]

I have one student who is seemingly unaffected by these, buy Dr Yang Jwing Ming proved to be quite able.

He, my shifu and my wife, just reach grab and hit the right points with great ease and quickness.

Dr Yang nailed while I was doing push hands with him.

Basically told my shifu what Dr Yang did, and his response was, “right here” as he grabbed me and hurt me. Then I foolishly told my wife about the prior two incidents and she said, “ you mean these” as she grabbed me and caused me pain…. I became convinced that all Chinese people wanted to hurt me…. Have not told any other Chinese person about this in 20 years

 

[Appledog51 4]

As a kind of challenge, I often let students hit my arm. I let them hit my fist or my forearm as hard as they want, and they always hurt their hand.

Once I flew off a motorcycle and landed on my side, my elbow hit me in the ribs like a baseball and I couldn't breathe for 30 seconds. Combined with the shock of the initial impact I probably would have passed out if I didn't know how to reverse it and start breathing again.

My teacher did some kidney stone therapy on me and it really hurt, which was surprising but I submit to the pain and I haven't had a kidney stone in 10 years now.

My teacher also told me some things about kungfu.

Over the years I have been involved in a number of rather horrifying accidents, including hitting my head on black ice from a 10 foot drop when I was younger. Probably explains a lot. I also fell on my knee once and severed a tendon and now I have to use qi to stand up or I will fall down.

So, if I ask you , what is 2+2, you might say four. But where did this four come from? I didn't say the word four. Where are you getting "four"? So if I told you something about pressure points, it's for real, because I already went through the 2+2 to learn about them. But I was never taught anything about pressure points from a martial arts perspective. There are a couple of reasons why. A pretty good one is that pressure points come from TCM and if you don't know TCM you can't really take advantage of pressure points. What I mean is, it's for healing, not hurting. So when you learn about them you shouldn't expect to learn about them for hurting. It's a wu de thing.

Recently someone posted an image of a confused face. I get it. But not everyone gets to know these things.

If you wanted to start, you could begin by studying to be a chinese doctor.

 

[Xue Sheng108 25]

As a kind of challenge, I often let students hit my arm. I let them hit my fist or my forearm as hard as they want, and they always hurt their hand.

Once I flew off a motorcycle and landed on my side, my elbow hit me in the ribs like a baseball and I couldn't breathe for 30 seconds. Combined with the shock of the initial impact I probably would have passed out if I didn't know how to reverse it and start breathing again.

My teacher did some kidney stone therapy on me and it really hurt, which was surprising but I submit to the pain and I haven't had a kidney stone in 10 years now.

My teacher also told me some things about kungfu.

Over the years I have been involved in a number of rather horrifying accidents, including hitting my head on black ice from a 10 foot drop when I was younger. Probably explains a lot. I also fell on my knee once and severed a tendon and now I have to use qi to stand up or I will fall down.

So, if I ask you , what is 2+2, you might say four. But where did this four come from? I didn't say the word four. Where are you getting "four"? So if I told you something about pressure points, it's for real, because I already went through the 2+2 to learn about them. But I was never taught anything about pressure points from a martial arts perspective. There are a couple of reasons why. A pretty good one is that pressure points come from TCM and if you don't know TCM you can't really take advantage of pressure points. What I mean is, it's for healing, not hurting. So when you learn about them you shouldn't expect to learn about them for hurting. It's a wu de thing.

Recently someone posted an image of a confused face. I get it. But not everyone gets to know these
things.

If you wanted to start, you could begin by studying to be a chinese doctor.

My wife is a trained TCM doctor from Beijing University, PhD. I tend to believe her when she says they exist. Also tend to believe her when she says there are points martial artist in China know, she is not supposed to use and I some cases is not trained because they are for hurting not healing.

And since 2 Chinese martial artist, one trained in Taiwan, and one trained in Hong Kong hurt me with pressure points, and that was confirmed by a TCM doctor ( my wife) who also use to head the acupuncture dept at Beijing hospital… I tend to believe they are real.

Now I will say the one trained in Hong Kong was trained in acupuncture the old school way in Hong Kong, the one Trained in Taiwan was not, he was a martial artist who went on to be an engineer and later went back martial arts full time

So, I strongly disagree with your post, and the 2+2 analogy does not IMO work and is a bit silly mathematically speaking.


And for the record, the confused face was an entirely different thread and it was deserved . But if you want me to explain that it would have to be in that thread, not this one

 

[Wing Woo Gar50 11]

He, my shifu and my wife, just reach grab and hit the right points with great ease and quickness.

Dr Yang nailed while I was doing push hands with him.

Basically told my shifu what Dr Yang did, and his response was, “right here” as he grabbed me and hurt me. Then I foolishly told my wife about the prior two incidents and she said, “ you mean these” as she grabbed me and caused me pain…. I became convinced that all Chinese people wanted to hurt me…. Have not told any other Chinese person about this in 20 years

Hilarious! Dr Yang always uses me as his demonstration dummy when someone asks a question. I’ve had some painful mornings with him. He does the best little kid laugh after he hurts me.

 

[Wing Woo Gar50 11]

My wife is a trained TCM doctor from Beijing University, PhD. I tend to believe her when she says they exist. Also tend to believe her when she says there are points martial artist in China know, she is not supposed to use and I some cases is not trained because they are for hurting not healing.

And since 2 Chinese martial artist, one trained in Taiwan, and one trained in Hong Kong hurt me with pressure points, and that was confirmed by a TCM doctor ( my wife) who also use to head the acupuncture dept at Beijing hospital… I tend to believe they are real.

Now I will say the one trained in Hong Kong was trained in acupuncture the old school way in Hong Kong, the one Trained in Taiwan was not, he was a martial artist who went on to be an engineer and later went back martial arts full time

So, I strongly disagree with your post, and the 2+2 analogy does not IMO work and is a bit silly mathematically speaking.


And for the record, the confused face was an entirely different thread and it was deserved . But if you want me to explain that it would have to be in that thread, not this one

People who don’t believe it just haven’t experienced it. It’s not magical but someone has to show one how to find the spots because some are buried in tissue and require a certain manipulation to access them. Arm bar is not magical but until someone shows one how to position it, it’s not effective.

 

[Appledog51 4]

So, I strongly disagree with your post, and the 2+2 analogy does not IMO work and is a bit silly mathematically speaking.

So you agree it's for health and everything you know about it basically comes from a Chinese doctor. Yet you disagree that it is for health, and that people should study Chinese medicine to learn about it? Now it's my turn to post a confused face I mean go ahead, you can try to explain this, here or on the other thread. But we are clearly talking about different things, and you are not known to investigate or ask clarifying questions. So our exchange will be limited to you educating me (or not) about the subject. I'm fine with that, I'll take what I can get!

 

[HighKick]

I have one student who is seemingly unaffected by these, buy Dr Yang Jwing Ming proved to be quite able.

Yeah, I have had students who I could not remotely grab by the elbow because their arms were so big. Let alone use the pressure point.

 

[Appledog51 4]

It's so interest that for woman self-defense, the 8 strikes and 8 non-strike is the opposite of the 8 strikes and 8 non-strike defined for man.

八打八不打”口诀

Eight Big Bu-Da's? What was that Eight Great Buddha kungfu? Positive and Negative kungfu for men and women? This sounds familiar. We learned of this in Praying Mantis boxing in 1992.

1. There is no greed (strike the eye but not the temple), Do not learn kungfu for money. Do not demonstrate on the street for money.
2, There is no gluttony (strike the lips but not the throat). Eating is to support practicing. If you eat more, you must practice more. Balance.
3. There is no bad speech (strike the cheek or the ear). Speak no evil, hear no evil. We all think evil. It doesn't matter if you think it. It matters if you do it.
4. There is no laziness (strike the back). If you do not row the boat today, the river will carry you back three days.
5. There is no desire (do not strike the area). The groin is not a special target; do not assign it special meaning, and look; it's better to strike the chi gu area anyways.
6. There is no extreme emotion (do not strike the heart or kidkey area). There is no overjoy or sadness which will draw your attention to striking this area.
7. There is no cutting corners (strike the shin but not the tailbone or wind mansion). Do not absolve yourself from body hardening;you do not need to damage yourself but you must be prepared for a strike.
8. There is no killing (break the bone before break the life). There is no murder.

Strictly speaking I would say these are about soft targets and not pressure points. Today when people talk about pressure points they don't understand. They think they do, but they don't. If they did, surely, they would say something about it. Then again, if they did know something about it, this is the last place I would expect them to talk about it.

 

[windwalker099115 145]