where is everybody?

[sinthetik_mistik]

They are not bogus, they just don't something that's at all common. If there are (completely random number) 100,000 TKD bouts, and 8 of them end in knockouts, that is a tiny tiny portion. But that's the portion that will get the most attention.

the thing is that video i showed you had like dozens of knockouts, i know some of them were just knockdowns, but i have seen other videos about TKD knockouts also, interestingly last week we had a debate the exact reverse of this one! (The one about TKD kicks in UFC)

 

[WaterGal]

The rules do give a bonus point for knockdowns. One of the things that could be done to improve the rules would be to award this for "falling" as well, because intentional falls are one of the more common ways to avoid being scored on..

You mean, having falling be a whole point deduction instead of kyungo? I could see that.

 

[WaterGal]

it's funny how many misconceptions that i had about TKD and martial arts in general have been corrected by my discussions on this website. i was bummed out to find that headgear doesn't make it harder to knock someone out with a kick, and now i realize that knockouts are a fraction as common as i thought they were anyway... i'm always posting all these knockout videos but i guess they are bogus. *sighs* oh well, i still love TKD

If you think about it, it makes sense that there aren't many knockouts. Getting knocked out is really bad for you. In sports like boxing or football, you can make a lot of money and be famous, so it might be worth it to risk a traumatic brain injury like that. But TKD competitors don't get paid (I think the national team might get some corporate sponsorships?), and generally have a day job or are students. They can't afford to get a concussion every month.

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

If you think about it, it makes sense that there aren't many knockouts. Getting knocked out is really bad for you. In sports like boxing or football, you can make a lot of money and be famous, so it might be worth it to risk a traumatic brain injury like that. But TKD competitors don't get paid (I think the national team might get some corporate sponsorships?), and generally have a day job or are students. They can't afford to get a concussion every month.

well from that perspective i guess it's good that there are not a lot of knockouts.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You mean, having falling be a whole point deduction instead of kyungo? I could see that.

Yes. A penalty for falling is like scoring with a punch. A lovely theory, but in practice... not so much. Referring again to my visits to the Olympic trials, I can say that people drop like flies. I can't recall any penalties being issued. Treat a fall and a knockdown as being the same thing.
Keep in mind that my opinions are colored by the fact that I don't really care about sport as sport. I see the sport as being training for a real fight (with rules imposed for safety).

 

[WaterGal]

Yes. A penalty for falling is like scoring with a punch. A lovely theory, but in practice... not so much. Referring again to my visits to the Olympic trials, I can say that people drop like flies. I can't recall any penalties being issued. Treat a fall and a knockdown as being the same thing.
Keep in mind that my opinions are colored by the fact that I don't really care about sport as sport. I see the sport as being training for a real fight (with rules imposed for safety).

Hmm, ok. I've only been to local tournaments, and they do issue kyungo for falling. If they're not doing that at nationals, that's too bad and kind of weird. Though, even with it being a half-point, if you have a choice between taking a three-point hit and losing half a point...

 

[Dirty Dog]

Hmm, ok. I've only been to local tournaments, and they do issue kyungo for falling. If they're not doing that at nationals, that's too bad and kind of weird. Though, even with it being a half-point, if you have a choice between taking a three-point hit and losing half a point...

Annndddd... there's the difference in mindset. I don't care about points. I care about survival. I will happily give up a "point" if it allows me to set up a counter that may well score less points, but do more for survival.

 

[WaterGal]

Yeah, that's fair. I think maybe that's something intrinsic to any sport fighting/combat sports, though. High-level competitors are going to focus on strategies that allow them to score the maximum number of points and keep their competitors from scoring. Regular people are usually training to learn to defend themselves, or lose weight or whatever other reasons they have, so how they spar is going to be more based on those goals, but people who are trying to win tournaments are going to have more of a focus on the details of the rules and these kind of point-getting strategies that can stray pretty far from actual self-defense.

 

[Steve]

Yeah, that's fair. I think maybe that's something intrinsic to any sport fighting/combat sports, though. High-level competitors are going to focus on strategies that allow them to score the maximum number of points and keep their competitors from scoring. Regular people are usually training to learn to defend themselves, or lose weight or whatever other reasons they have, so how they spar is going to be more based on those goals, but people who are trying to win tournaments are going to have more of a focus on the details of the rules and these kind of point-getting strategies that can stray pretty far from actual self-defense.

There's a middle ground. I think people can move into and out of a sport mentality pretty easily, if they train both. I've heard Tony and others say as much, and I believe them. For example, in MMA, I remember many years ago on an episode of TUF, one of the coaches (I want to say Rich Franklin) suggested to a guy that he just reach down and touch the mat to protect himself from knees to the head. The reaction on the show was that this was a lame, cop out idea. But now, we see it all the time in UFC matches. But, I just have a hard time believing that a professional MMA fighter, if in a street fight, would reach down to touch the ground in order to protect himself from knees to the head.