KKW TKD, only for sport?

Dirty Dog

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saying there are too many black belts to sanction them all is a classic example of putting quantity over quality, which in any business or organisation is not a good idea. Imagine if every second iphone started breaking down within a week of purchase and apple saying "we just sell too many phones to ensure the quality of our product". No one would accept that as its poor business practice. The funny thing is that I have friends who think their black belt is somehow more "credible" because its a kkw black belt, but then the kkw itself admits it cant keep tabs on ensuring their black belts meet a certain standard. I think as someone who runs a large business myself, I just cant understand the whole concept.

In order to make this analogy accurate, you'd have to have every student learn at the same school. Everybody would have to learn Taegeuk 1-4 at school A. 5-8 at school B. Stances would be polished at C. Hand techniques at D. Sparring at E. Final assembly would be at KKW. How to tie the belt would be added in a later patch.
 

Gnarlie

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In order to make this analogy accurate, you'd have to have every student learn at the same school. Everybody would have to learn Taegeuk 1-4 at school A. 5-8 at school B. Stances would be polished at C. Hand techniques at D. Sparring at E. Final assembly would be at KKW. How to tie the belt would be added in a later patch.

God help us when the new version iBelt 's' is released and we have to remortgage and pay all over again for a black Belt that is slightly longer and thinner but essentially the same as the previous one and still inferior to many cheaper Black belts on the market.

On the plus side, using the warranty service model for the iPhone, faulty black belt practitioners could be shipped back to the manufacturer for repair or replacement free of charge.

Gnarlie
 

Gorilla

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Karate instructor set up a Krav Maga guy to teach some self def very interesting...one of the techs is how to get out of a locked trunk!

He likes working with athletes we will be doing a promo video! It was a nice break from the sport training!
 

Cyriacus

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Karate instructor set up a Krav Maga guy to teach some self def very interesting...one of the techs is how to get out of a locked trunk!

He likes working with athletes we will be doing a promo video! It was a nice break from the sport training!
Youre reminding me of a guy i met once, who taught me a technique called spit-in-their-face-to-distract-them. Its really technical and precise :D
 

Gorilla

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IT is mostly for young women in case you get kidnapped. Not a bad thing to know!
 

Kong Soo Do

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Karate instructor set up a Krav Maga guy to teach some self def very interesting...one of the techs is how to get out of a locked trunk!

He likes working with athletes we will be doing a promo video! It was a nice break from the sport training!

This is actually an outstanding addition to any training. In addition to woman's SD classes, it is often a subject of training for children in abduction prevention classes. I would recommend it highly for anyone, particularly woman and children.

For children I would also recommend code words between them and the parents. This can go a long way towards preventing an abduction.
 

Gorilla

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SD training is very valuable!


This is actually an outstanding addition to any training. In addition to woman's SD classes, it is often a subject of training for children in abduction prevention classes. I would recommend it highly for anyone, particularly woman and children.

For children I would also recommend code words between them and the parents. This can go a long way towards preventing an abduction.
 

WaterGal

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I am of the opinion that being able to fire off a hard roundhouse kick first is better self defense than most of the "grab my wrist, no my other wrist, no my other wrist with your other wrist" crap I've seen.

LOL, yeah, I know what you're talking about there. It took me at least 2 years of Hapkido training before I got past that "no grab the other wrist" thing and could just intuitively work from the principle. At this point I think the Hapkido would be more useful to me in real life, but for those 2 years a good hard side kick to the groin would've served me better than trying out my hapkido moves!
 

Kong Soo Do

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LOL, yeah, I know what you're talking about there. It took me at least 2 years of Hapkido training before I got past that "no grab the other wrist" thing and could just intuitively work from the principle. At this point I think the Hapkido would be more useful to me in real life, but for those 2 years a good hard side kick to the groin would've served me better than trying out my hapkido moves!

Not to get too far off track in the thread, but since this has been brought up it's worth discussing imo. The 'grab my wrist' is the wrong teaching methodology to begin with. Yes, for the very initial 'getting-to-know-you' on a technique it is fine. But from there the principle behind the technique should be addressed, which in turn flows outward to multiple techniques when the principle is understood. The GMW method is automatically limiting in-and-of-itself. When a principle is understood, which does NOT take a lot of time, the practitioner should be able to apply a particular technique regardless of the position of the attacker and/or him/herself. A wrist has only so much range of motion, whether that wrist is above you, to the side of you, your on the ground, their on the ground etc. One principle is worth a hundred techniques. This has allowed us to prepare a multitude of people in what would be otherwise considered a short amount of time.

Instead of a couple of years to become comfortable and proficient, it should take a couple of weeks. Don't take what I'm saying out of context. This doesn't mean you're Chuck, Bruce and Stephen rolled up into one after two weeks. But it is our experience that after an initial strike/counter-strike you should be able to jack someone up in some kind of lock rather quickly, depending upon what principle you've started with. Martial arts is suppose to be highly usable in a short amount of time. Again, not mastery...whatever that is, but usable in a real situation. Perhaps some don't know how to teach it this way? Perhaps some don't want to teach it this way from a monetary standpoint? I don't know.

High liabilty professionals and private citizens don't have years to learn something they may need tomorrow.
 

ETinCYQX

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LOL, yeah, I know what you're talking about there. It took me at least 2 years of Hapkido training before I got past that "no grab the other wrist" thing and could just intuitively work from the principle. At this point I think the Hapkido would be more useful to me in real life, but for those 2 years a good hard side kick to the groin would've served me better than trying out my hapkido moves!

Regardless of what self defense technique I practice, I'm sure I'd fall back on either a kick or a competition style throw in an SD situation.
 

ETinCYQX

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High liabilty professionals and private citizens don't have years to learn something they may need tomorrow.

As kind of a tangent, and to get your opinion on it, I have a point to make that kind of works in here.

I've been told time and time again that "RCMP training is far superior to martial arts because they train to fight for real". It's an idiotic argument imo, mainly because they never practice it again. What kind of proficiency can be expected when you learn it once and never practice it?

I don't have much faith in a police officer who learned in training and doesn't touch it again when put up against even a collegiate wrestler or similar sport MA guy.

Since IIRC you're law enforcement and specialize in this kind of stuff, I'm interested in your perspective on this.
 

Kong Soo Do

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As kind of a tangent, and to get your opinion on it, I have a point to make that kind of works in here.

I've been told time and time again that "RCMP training is far superior to martial arts because they train to fight for real". It's an idiotic argument imo, mainly because they never practice it again. What kind of proficiency can be expected when you learn it once and never practice it?

I don't have much faith in a police officer who learned in training and doesn't touch it again when put up against even a collegiate wrestler or similar sport MA guy.

Since IIRC you're law enforcement and specialize in this kind of stuff, I'm interested in your perspective on this.

Great question.

Certain systems (WWII combatives, Boatman system, SPEAR, PCR etc) have a very good track record of useability under duress in real altercations with a minimum of training. Perhaps 16-40 hours depending on which system where talking about. Training once and never doing it again is less than optimal of course. There is a caveat here though, we do have documentation of people learning 'something' years or in some cases decades ago and then using it successfully in a crisis situation. For example the senior citizen who took out an armed robber at a 'stop-in-shop' decades after serving in the FSSF (First Special Services Force). He trained under Pat O'Neill of WWII combatives fame. Is it the rule? No. But can and has it happened? Yes.

Preferably we need sufficient training in a gross motor skilled technique that relies on the flinch response and is drilled by rote. Then periodic refresher training. As an example, Boatman's system was taught in 16 hours with refresher training occurring annually. It was found that refresher could be pushed back to 18 month intervals. SPEAR (SPontaneous Enabling Accelerated Response) is a 40 course (for instructors). Refresher training is annually. And that is sufficient and has and does work for us. To be clear, we're not taking complicated, refined motor skills. SPEAR and Boatman is stupid-simply...but bloody brutal (literally). And it has an excellent track record.

Now for the reality check segment of my reply...

If you get a serious person that applies themselves in training, comprehends the technique/principle/strategy and commits to the training then they are far more likely to be able to use it under stress than the schmuck that coasts through the training and has a 'it won't happen to me' attitude. This also applies to those that go straight to an admin type of job and don't put their hands on people. Take a Police Officer/Deputy/Trooper/Correction Officer that has what many would consider minimal training yet regularly/periodically is putting their hands on someone and it makes a BIG difference! Do they know everything a 'BB' knows? Nope. But they do have a small tool box of 'go-to' techniques/principles/strategies that work under duress on real bad guys.

But yes, there are Officers that I wouldn't want as back up because they just aren't proficient with what they have and what they've been taught. There are others that have the same level of training that I absolutely would trust to back me up. I truly feel that the bottom line is mind set.
 

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