When does "life" begin?

When Does "Life" Begin?

  • Conception

  • Three Months

  • Six Months

  • Nine Months

  • Birth

  • Afterbirth (in the sense that it is sometime after birth)


Results are only viewable after voting.

Makalakumu

Gonzo Karate Apocalypse
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
13,887
Reaction score
232
Location
Hawaii
I'm posting this poll to see where the majority of answers lie along this spectrum. Alot of this question depends on how one sees "life" in relation to the choices given. Please explain what you believe "life" is in relation to this question and the choices given.

Thanks :asian:

upnorthkyosa
 
OP
Makalakumu

Makalakumu

Gonzo Karate Apocalypse
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
13,887
Reaction score
232
Location
Hawaii
RandomPhantom700 said:
How about an "I have no idea" option?
Shoot! That would have been a good option, unfortuneately, I can't edit the poll. It's okay, sometimes its good to have to MAKE a decision...
 

terryl965

<center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
41,259
Reaction score
340
Location
Grand Prairie Texas
Conception is where life begins that is when the human starts to grow. In a side note life also begins after death.
 
OP
Makalakumu

Makalakumu

Gonzo Karate Apocalypse
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
13,887
Reaction score
232
Location
Hawaii
arnisador said:
Is it a meaningful question? The sperm cells in your testicles are alive, aren't they?
Certainly. The ambiguity is what makes it interesting. That is why "life" is in quotation marks.

BTW - some old religions that I've read about believed that "life" began sometime after a child was born. And I think that Old Christianity believe this too. The "life at conception" is a new thing and it is a result of modern science.

Interesting implications...
 

The Kai

Master of Arts
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Messages
1,925
Reaction score
33
I think in the days of old christianity the idea of a fetus was rather primitive. While your swimmers are alive, when does that life become a sepaerat entity?
 

Andrew Green

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
8,627
Reaction score
452
Location
Winnipeg MB
Millions of years ago...

Since then it has continued.

Although I think that was not what you meant :)
 

Gemini

Senior Master
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
3,546
Reaction score
37
Location
The Desert
arnisador said:
Is it a meaningful question? The sperm cells in your testicles are alive, aren't they?
Actually, from a technical term, I would think this is right, but from a "Human life" standpoint, I say from consciousness.

(Boy, does this put the old melon above radar.)
 

hardheadjarhead

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
2,602
Reaction score
71
Location
Bloomington, Indiana
No "when the fetus is viable" option, I note.

This question and topic of the thread of course leads us into the inevitable abortion issue, the context for which this question always appears in American culture. Some background:

Abortion 200 years ago was not seen as a great moral issue. It was performed primarily to hide the illicit sexual activity that led to its occasion. It was usually done on women who were single.

The first abortion laws enacted in the US came about in the early 19th century. The first law against abortion took place in Connecticut in 1821, and merely outlawed the use of dangerous poisions to induce abortion. By 1840 only eight states had any anti-abortion regulations.

In the 1800's aborticants, whether effective or not, were advertised in the popular press. One historian estimates one abortion was performed for every four live births, and the birth rate among white women in America fell by 50% during this time.

The anti abortion movement gained weight with the efforts of the fledgling AMA around 1857. This was partly due to concerns over risks of abortion at the time (mortality was high) and partly due to increased awareness over fetal development and the ethics of taking a developing life.

The Catholic Church didn't have a stance on abortion in the early 19th century, as the issue wasn't present in church dogma. Theologians believed that "animation" or "ensoulment" occured at "the quickening" where their was noted movement in the uterus. A male fetus was considered animated after forty days, a female after eighty days. Abortion was not deemed a homicide prior to ensoulment. In 1869 the church was influenced by new medical information concerning fetal development, and took its first strict anti-abortion stance.

Now on to the question "when does life begin?" Further and more specifically, let's ask the questions this question in itself raises. I offer no ready answers:

The term "life" could be applied to a zygote. 24 hours after the sperm enters the egg the genetic material is combined. It takes that long for the process to occur. Is it life then? Some say no. It is incapable of mitosis during that window of genetic intermixing.

What if the zygote combines with another fertilized zygote and creates a totally new zygote? This happens on occasion. Did we have two "lives" collated into one? Or is the new zygote two people in one?

If we induce abortion after the 24 hour window on a soccer ball shaped zygote, is it murder? Is it murder of one person, or should we anticipate that the zygote might have split into one or more twins/triplets/quadruplets and then call it a mass murder? How do we scientifically determine this?

If we deem it murder to kill this "life," after conception as some of us do deem it, do we then charge the abortionist with murder? Do we charge the mother as an accessory to murder, or as a principle defendant? Do we jail/execute one or both? Is there a statute of limitations on these murders? Do we jail/execute past abortionists and women for having had abortions ten or twenty years ago?

If we state that life begins at conception and deem abortion murder do we make exceptions to abortion in the event of risk to the mother's life or health? What if the conception were due to rape or incest? What if the fetus is horribly disfigured and likely to die soon after birth? I've heard pro-life advocates allow for these exceptions to varying degrees, yet still term abortion murder. Is abortion in these cases then acceptable murder?

When doctors artificially fertilize eggs for implantation in a woman who is having difficulty in conceiving, do we then prosecute them for discarding those unused zygotes? This happens frequently. Are they murderers? Do we use their efforts at providing the woman a chance at motherhood as mitigating factors during sentencing?

Is an IUD, which prevents implantation of a zygote on the uterine wall, a lethal weapon? Should a woman using this be tried as a murderer? How many murders should she be charged with? How does one determine whether any zygote were killed, much less several or dozens? Is the doctor prescribing it an accessory?

Given that 50% of all egg fertilizations spontaneously abort. If technology were to become available that reduced these spontaneous abortions, should the state compel sexually active women to take these medications/procedures in order to save the life of the zygote/fetus? If bringing these fetuses to a level of viability substantially increased their chances of being born deformed, is this state action moral?

Compounding this issue further: What if fetal stem cell research itself leads to increased viability of fetuses that would otherwise spontaneously abort? Do we use this research? What if the research took place in another country? Does their culpability erase ours, thereby allowing us to use the fruits of their research?

References:

http://zygote.swarthmore.edu/

Laurence H. Tribe, "Abortion: The Clash of Absolutes," W.W. Norton and Company, New York. 1990.



Regards,



Steve
 

ginshun

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Messages
809
Reaction score
26
Location
Merrill, WI
I voted at conception.

This however does not mean that I oppose abortion. I personally don't think it is the right choice most of the time, but have no desire to make it against the law.
 

Ray

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
1,391
Reaction score
53
Location
Creston, IA
Life begins when those little sperm cells move out and get a place of their own!
 
OP
Makalakumu

Makalakumu

Gonzo Karate Apocalypse
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
13,887
Reaction score
232
Location
Hawaii
hardheadjarhead said:
Hmmm. I went to a urologist and had locks put on the door.



Regards,



Steve
We have a Urologist who does that in my hometown, his name is, I kid you not, Dr. Richard Chop...

WOW!

Anyways, life...
 

BrandiJo

Master of Arts
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
1,603
Reaction score
14
i said at conterception. To me its a child when its inside me as well as out side me so whats the difference of it its been born yet or if it has fingers and toes yet
 

sgtmac_46

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 19, 2004
Messages
4,753
Reaction score
189
upnorthkyosa said:
I'm posting this poll to see where the majority of answers lie along this spectrum. Alot of this question depends on how one sees "life" in relation to the choices given. Please explain what you believe "life" is in relation to this question and the choices given.

Thanks :asian:

upnorthkyosa
When does life begin or when does human life begin? Biologically or politically?

Biologically, human life begins at conception. Politically it begins when you become old enough to be thought about as a potential present or future voter, or there are at least enough people to care about you as an individual that they will vote to protect you.

So, I guess in that sense, life begins at birth. If fetuses could vote, there wouldn't be an abortion issue. That's why abortion IS an issue, women vote, fetuses don't. It's a simple math equation. Life begins when the voter says it begins.

Regards.
 

Ender

Black Belt
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
684
Reaction score
21
Life ends when brain waves cease. Therefore, life should begin when brain waves begin to eminate.
 

FearlessFreep

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Messages
3,088
Reaction score
98
Location
Phoenix, Arizona

Life ends when brain waves cease. Therefore, life should begin when brain waves begin to eminate.


A bazillion bacteria, virii,and other primitive forms of 'life' would probably argue the point...if they had brainwaves to argue with :)
 

Latest Discussions

Top