What IS Patriotism?

[MA-Caver]

Now this may seem better placed in the elections forum but I am linking these two articles for an example and (hoping) that the follow-up replies will stay on topic.
These were written by the current presidential candidates when posed with the question "What is Patriotism?"
For McCain http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2008/edition_07-06-2008/2Patriotism_McCain in short, it's "Putting The Country First".
For Obama http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2008/edition_07-06-2008/1Patriotism_Obama in short, it's "Faith In One Another As Americans".
Both make interesting reading to be sure.

Question I pose to you all is the same: What is Patriotism? As briefly as possible (and I suggest that you take the time to think about it for a moment) relate what you feel best answers the question for you. I think this question can apply to the Brits and Aussies and other nationalities represented here on this forum as well. After all, Patriotism isn't just limited to America.
I don't think there are right and wrong views/answers on this topic/question. It means something different to everyone, but it does mean something.
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For me, Patriotism is believing in one's homeland/country. Standing by it and holding true pride in it's accomplishments and having a desire to overcome it's failures and wrongs (whatever they may be) and making it better. It's loving the land/country you're in, where you were born or where you now choose to live. Loving the people and having a desire to help them achieve their dreams as well as pursuing your own.
It's a willingness to die in defense of said country/land so long as the sacrifice you make is meaningful and makes a difference, no matter how small. To die without just cause or meaning is a useless death IMO. The willingness to defend the rights given to you by it's founders and to defend the rights of others who'd be willing to do the same for yours. Patriotism also is honoring those who have made the ultimate sacrifice so you can continue living in your country without fear or oppression.
It's doing whatever you can to make your country a better place to live. To be something that others can admire (not envy). It's being the best you can be because you, who were raised in that country are the product of that country's hard work and dedication.
It is loving who/what you are; an American or where-ever it is that you live.
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Please contribute.

 

[CuongNhuka]

"Patriotism is loving your country always, and your government when it deserves it" - Cann't remember. I'll check it out later and post.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Something to think about is that the people we look back to as Patriots, the founding fathers and revolutionaries... they didn't have a country. They were in the midst of establishing a country, many very reluctantly, and were fighting back against the nation they were considered subjects of.

So I think the ideals of Patriotism must reach beyond countries.. to embrace ideals and friends and maybe something less defined but more personal

 

[Twin Fist]

jingoism-loving your country, not admitting to any flaws
patriotism-loving country, flaws and all
un-patriotic- concentrating on the flaws, ignoring the virtues.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiently or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else."

--Theodore Roosevelt​

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

PATRIOTISM, n. Combustible rubbish read to the torch of any one ambitious to illuminate his name.-The Devil's dictionary by Ambrose Bierce

 

[Sukerkin]

'Patrioism' is an elusive word, slippery with implied meaning greased upon it by those that use it.

I like the 'defintion' that Caver gave in the OP and I think the simple three-step stratification that TF gave has value too but I also feel that JCA's more cynical attribution should be given equal attention.

'Patriotism' is what I term a 'bloodied shirt' word. It is one guaranteed to inflame emotions, particularly (for no readily understandable reason) in Americans. As such it can be used for nefarious purposes by unscrupulous individuals (aka politicians) so it is vital that each person has a grasp on what it means to them.

I am ready to be shown the error of my views but there does appear to be a very fundamental difference in mindset when it comes to political and national issues between America and the more mature Western European countries.

For example, if you call me 'Unpatriotic', because I think our involvement in the unnecessary wars of Afghanistan and Iraq was a severe mistake that will have dire consequences in the post-Cold War world, then I will shrug and not be at all insulted.

I am English and very proud of it. I think letting go of the Empire was a pragmatic triumph but fundamentally a flawed necessity brought on by the two world wars and our financial debts to America. My loyalty is to the Crown. The government that represents the Crown does not deserve my loyalty and will never have it because they formulate policy in their interests (and that of their funders), not mine. Hence, I freely admit I am a Monarchist.

It is true that the Crown 'signs off' on government policy and thus the responsibility ultimately lies with the Queen (or King as we shall have all too soon) but the Crown acts slowly and subtly behind the scenes to alter policy without causing a constitutional crisis. Also, the one useful thing that the government does do is act as a reciprocal 'drag anchor' on any dictatorial aspirations of the person that sits upon the throne - in essence that is what they are really for. All the other 'stuff' has accreted over time and seems to be nothing more than a tax-attractor.

Anyhow, by dint of trying to explain the background thnking to 'English' partriotism I'm wandering into the more general arena of the rational of government structure.

An Englishman, well this Englishman at any rate, is patriotic to the country of his birth. If we were invaded then I would do what I could to end that invasion but, given certain Buddhist tendencies, would hesitate to kill individual invaders who acted honourably because they are no more free-willed than many other people around the world {see how complex this can get? :lol:}.

But for us, partriotism is more a matter of personal conscience than an externally applied mantle of public extolations. The newspapers (aka political propoganda outlets) tried to whip up public opinion at the anti-war protestors as being "Unpatriotic". The result? A resounding damp squib - we just don't think that way. Even if we disagree with the protestors (and some refer to them in unflattering terms) we dont see them as un-patriotic - just daft to think that they can change anything .

So for us Britons, Patriotism means something very different than it does in America. There, to be deemed Un-Patriotic is a stinging slur. Here, if someone says we are Un-Patriotic we say "How so?" for they have no right to judge our personal loyalties by their yardstick.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

For Sukerkin:

http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/

:cheers:

 

[girlbug2]

Patriotism is not so much protecting the land of our fathers as preserving the land for our children.
-- Jose Ortega y Gasset

 

[tellner]

Ideally, profound commitment to the well-being of your nation.

Generally, a rhetorical club with which to bludgeon your opponents and get the sheep to do whatever you tell them.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Not to side track because this could be a discussion by and of itself but:

Would a person like Robert E. Lee be considered a patriot? Was he a patriot? He loved his country but loved the ideals and rights of the states to succeed from the union also.
As I said I do not want to side track this thread so if this stats a thread drift it will be separated from this thread.
I simply want to know if he might have been a true patriot in his belives

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Robert E Lee loved his country. So much so that he resigned from the Union Army and the Union (which he also loved) rather than fight against it.
His country was Virginia.
When Virginia was threatened, he answered it's call to lead an army for it.

"With all my devotion to the Union and the feeling of loyalty and duty of an American citizen, I have not been able to make up my mind to raise my hand against my relatives, my children, my home. I have therefore resigned my commission in the Army, and save in defense of my native State, with the sincere hope that my poor services may never be needed, I hope I may never be called on to draw my sword..." REL

What is Patriotism?
"love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it"



The belief that each state was an independant nation was a founding part of the Constitution and nation, which should be discussed elsewhere so that this stays on the original topic please.

 

[MA-Caver]

Robert E Lee loved his country. So much so that he resigned from the Union Army and the Union (which he also loved) rather than fight against it.
His country was Virginia.
When Virginia was threatened, he answered it's call to lead an army for it.

"With all my devotion to the Union and the feeling of loyalty and duty of an American citizen, I have not been able to make up my mind to raise my hand against my relatives, my children, my home. I have therefore resigned my commission in the Army, and save in defense of my native State, with the sincere hope that my poor services may never be needed, I hope I may never be called on to draw my sword..." REL

What is Patriotism?
"love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it"



The belief that each state was an independent nation was a founding part of the Constitution and nation, which should be discussed elsewhere so that this stays on the original topic please.

Lee was indeed a contradiction and a friend of mine once suggested that he was a traitor to the Union in that he attended and graduated West Point along with his Union class mates that he met later on the battlefield. But that he stood by his beliefs and for the sake of the country that he loved did what he felt was right.
What an amazing man that was.
Thanks Bob.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Not to side track because this could be a discussion by and of itself but:

Would a person like Robert E. Lee be considered a patriot? Was he a patriot? He loved his country but loved the ideals and rights of the states to succeed from the union also.
As I said I do not want to side track this thread so if this stats a thread drift it will be separated from this thread.
I simply want to know if he might have been a true patriot in his belives

That's why I said above that I think "Patriotism" has nothing to do with "country". Many of the people with think of as "patriots" had no country, but they had friends and neighbors and they fought for what they had in common in terms of friendship, experience, history, culture, and values

 

[Live True]

I can't be as succint as so many of the previous posters, as this can be a thorny issue, especially in an election year. However, I believe patriotism is being proud of where you live and willing to help it be the best it can be. I think that's the most important part, and it has little to do with a specific country adn more to do with a willingness to act upon one's beliefs.

It’s being willing to take responsibility for your part in making your country and home strong, beautiful, and safe. This means voting, this means speaking up - - even, and especially, when it is not the majority opinion but still the right thing - - and out, this means picking up trash you see, and it means giving a stranger a helping hand when you can. It also means NOT littering and NOT hating and NOT being deaf/blind/dumb when you see injustice. It means being brave, even if it’s in small ways, and taking responsibility for yourself and for your country.

I believe it was Ben Franklin who said that, “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Which basically shows that I believe patriotism is pride, backed by a willingness to take action and be responsible. It’s more than lip service or what you wear. It’s what you do and what you are that makes a true patriot.

 

[Live True]

BTW, thanks MA for a fascinating post, and for everyone posting in keeping this on track.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Here's another interesting point.
George Washington is often cited as a posterboy for a patriot, yet he was technically a traitor to his government.

 

[tellner]

He was technically a traitor to his government.

"Treason doth never prosper. And what is the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason. " - Ovid

 

[elder999]

Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.
Unknown - sometimes misattributed to Julius Caesar

 

[Archangel M]

What is Patriotism?

A pretty diverse source of opinion.