What would you do it you were me

[Tames D]

I'm having a big problem here. I have been trying very hard to get over it and walk away. But I can't. I took my boys to the Boy Scout Camporee this weekend.This year the "authorities" made the boys hike into camp doing map orientation to find camp. We dropped them off outside camp at 5:30pm on friday and they were to navigate their way into camp. These boys (patrols) are 12 to 17 years old. My sons patrol (they are 12 years old) arrived at camp at 8:30pm. They were the second to show. At 10:30pm the last patrol marched into camp. Keep in mind there is no adult supervision on this hike into camp

They still had to pitch their tents and set up their campsite before they could cook their dinner. Camp regulations state that lights are out at 10pm and everyone must be in their tent. Well, needless to say that wasn't happening.

This area has alot of coyotes and there have been bears seen the area. I was worried but didn't want to show it. I'm pissed but have been told not to make a deal out of it. But I think I will. Before I do, any opinions on why I shouldn't?
I'm really trying to be cool and not make waves with things I don't agree with but this involves my kids. Maybe I'm over reacting. Did I mention that I'm pissed?

 

[shesulsa]

Hm. Did each boy strike out on this endeavor alone? Or did they hike to camp in groups?

 

[shesulsa]

Our patrol coordinates perimeter monitoring with the local ranger.

 

[Gnarlie]

OK, here's my fresh pair of eyes viewpoint: I'm not sure I understand why you are annoyed. Are you annoyed that the children's lives may have been at risk? At what point? On the hike in? Or after they arrived?

Part of being a Scout is learning to take on responsibility. In order to do that realistically, the Scouts need to feel that they are working without supervision. Even covert supervision can spoil the illusion. On similar exercises I did as a child in the UK, there were supervised checkpoints along the hike, but we are talking every 7 or so miles for 30 miles or more. It sounds like the hike in was fairly short anyway if the first group only took a few hours. The question I would have is how late would the 'authorities' have let it get before taking some kind of action, and whether any covert observation was done without the kids knowledge to ensure their safety... Did the group arrive in darkness?

Once the kids are on site, the authorities are there nearby, and it sounds like the rule on lights out is fairly flexible. Getting the tent up and cooking food in the dark is part of the adventure, and from the participants an experience of real consequences of taking a long time to get to the camp. I don't see any reason to be annoyed unless you were one of the other campers and were disturbed by the noise.

Gnarlie

 

[Cyriacus]

Honestly, why is there a lights out time at a camp? Its not a hotel. Its not a child minding center. Its not a sleepover at a friends. Youre in the b***** wild, you go to bed when you feel like it. Its an artificial consequence. If they were really out spending some time in that place, on there own, there wouldnt be a lights out time. Its totally unnecessary, and serves only to hinder them and needlessly impair them because they were told to go to bed, despite being perfectly capable of doing whatever it is they wanted or needed to do.

However, i dont think letting them hike alone was a 'bad' thing. A few kids could take a coyote if they had the guts. Or run away from a bear. Plus, its not nearly as 'unsafe' as some of the stuff i used to do camping and hunting as a teenager. They need to learn to function on their own, thats a part of what theyre doing. Now, if you dont like that, then remove them from the program. Its that simple. Its like if your kid goes to work in a kitchen, but then you dont want them near any knives.

Note that i may be biased by, as i said, having been camping and hunting quite a bit. If something happened, they could have handled themselves until either help arrived, or they helped each other. The risk is there, of course, but every time you go near another human you risk catching an illness of them. The only difference is, you can actually do something about predators. Especially if youre in a group.

 

[martial sparrer]

I think it was a dangerous situation.....I do not think I would have let my kids go.....you have to understand that besides the danger factor period....until a person is over twenty years of age....kids just do stuff and do not know why....their brains just cant do it.....a whole bunch of teenagers in the woods together....wow that could be very bad.....as a teacher and father why would the boy scouts put kids in the forest with no supervision?? blows my mind.....forget this crap of letting them be men and fend for themselves.....I would have told the boy scouts how ridiculous it was before the trip even started.....you really cant trust society anymore.....you cant say well people will behave themselves.....it just doesn't happen.....

 

[martial sparrer]

also...plain and simple....you cant take chances with your children.....mine are 2 and 4.....god forbid I have to run inside the house while they are in the car....doors locked....I am usain bolt at that instant.....

 

[Cyriacus]

I think it was a dangerous situation.....I do not think I would have let my kids go.....you have to understand that besides the danger factor period....until a person is over twenty years of age....kids just do stuff and do not know why....their brains just cant do it.....

Either i was an EXTREMELY mature teenager, or its just me who stopped having that kinda stuff happen when i was around 6-7 years old.

PS: Actually, id like to hear some examples of this, because ive never, ever even heard of that. Color me skeptical

 

[granfire]

I'm having a big problem here. I have been trying very hard to get over it and walk away. But I can't. I took my boys to the Boy Scout Camporee this weekend.This year the "authorities" made the boys hike into camp doing map orientation to find camp. We dropped them off outside camp at 5:30pm on friday and they were to navigate their way into camp. These boys (patrols) are 12 to 17 years old. My sons patrol (they are 12 years old) arrived at camp at 8:30pm. They were the second to show. At 10:30pm the last patrol marched into camp. Keep in mind there is no adult supervision on this hike into camp

They still had to pitch their tents and set up their campsite before they could cook their dinner. Camp regulations state that lights are out at 10pm and everyone must be in their tent. Well, needless to say that wasn't happening.

This area has alot of coyotes and there have been bears seen the area. I was worried but didn't want to show it. I'm pissed but have been told not to make a deal out of it. But I think I will. Before I do, any opinions on why I shouldn't?
I'm really trying to be cool and not make waves with things I don't agree with but this involves my kids. Maybe I'm over reacting. Did I mention that I'm pissed?

Ok, Coyotes do generally not attack humans. Bears, well I am not sure, I am hoping you are talking Black Bears....however, I also think they rather skedaddle than meet a group of people...besides, there were a LOT of people trumping through the forest....I am sure even Yogi done ran for the hills...


Do contact the organizers and such however. Get your info straight from the horse's mouth.

There is this observation I make time and time again that really fascinates me:
You think - with reason - that your kid is incapable of finding his/her butt with both hands and a road map. But as soon as the parent steps back the little stinkers pull out a maturity that blows your mind.

And as you pick them up they turn into complete imbeciles again

I have seen that with the band kids, as well as with the scouts.

Also, as to lights out and coming in late: There is a valuable lesson to be learned! Lolligag around on the trail, you will sleep in the open and eat cold food! I don't really feel too sorry for them but I am mean that way. You can bet, next time they will not do the same mistake twice!

But do contact the people in charge, get the lowdown, etc. but keep your shirt on until you got their side.
I am pretty sure they had almost all bases covered, since, gosh...organizing anything these days is such a nightmare!

 

[Tames D]

Hm. Did each boy strike out on this endeavor alone? Or did they hike to camp in groups?

Groups of about 7

 

[Dirty Dog]

Honestly, I think you're overreacting.
Groups of kids make tons of noise. In the woods, that means they're not even going to see a bear or a coyote, let alone be attacked. The critters will be long gone.
As for lights out... What's the harm in sleeping under the stars?

 

[Tames D]

Honestly, why is there a lights out time at a camp? Its not a hotel. Its not a child minding center. Its not a sleepover at a friends. Youre in the b***** wild, you go to bed when you feel like it. Its an artificial consequence. If they were really out spending some time in that place, on there own, there wouldnt be a lights out time. Its totally unnecessary, and serves only to hinder them and needlessly impair them because they were told to go to bed, despite being perfectly capable of doing whatever it is they wanted or needed to do.

However, i dont think letting them hike alone was a 'bad' thing. A few kids could take a coyote if they had the guts. Or run away from a bear. Plus, its not nearly as 'unsafe' as some of the stuff i used to do camping and hunting as a teenager. They need to learn to function on their own, thats a part of what theyre doing. Now, if you dont like that, then remove them from the program. Its that simple. Its like if your kid goes to work in a kitchen, but then you dont want them near any knives.

Note that i may be biased by, as i said, having been camping and hunting quite a bit. If something happened, they could have handled themselves until either help arrived, or they helped each other. The risk is there, of course, but every time you go near another human you risk catching an illness of them. The only difference is, you can actually do something about predators. Especially if youre in a group.

Your'e right, it's not a hotel. It's an organized event where rules and regultions apply. Kinda like your job and life in general. I was alot like you when I was growing up, so I understand your thiinking. Not sure if you have kids but my thinking changed when I had my kids.

If you have ever been in a camp with 400 young scouts, then you might understand the 10pm lights outs rule. The kids need to get some sleep for the 6am wake up call. Very busy day for everyone. I personally don't like going to bed that early but it is what it is.

 

[Tames D]

Ok, Coyotes do generally not attack humans. Bears, well I am not sure, I am hoping you are talking Black Bears....however, I also think they rather skedaddle than meet a group of people...besides, there were a LOT of people trumping through the forest....I am sure even Yogi done ran for the hills...


Do contact the organizers and such however. Get your info straight from the horse's mouth.

There is this observation I make time and time again that really fascinates me:
You think - with reason - that your kid is incapable of finding his/her butt with both hands and a road map. But as soon as the parent steps back the little stinkers pull out a maturity that blows your mind.

And as you pick them up they turn into complete imbeciles again

I have seen that with the band kids, as well as with the scouts.

Also, as to lights out and coming in late: There is a valuable lesson to be learned! Lolligag around on the trail, you will sleep in the open and eat cold food! I don't really feel too sorry for them but I am mean that way. You can bet, next time they will not do the same mistake twice!

But do contact the people in charge, get the lowdown, etc. but keep your shirt on until you got their side.
I am pretty sure they had almost all bases covered, since, gosh...organizing anything these days is such a nightmare!

Good post Granfire. And your right, coyotes and bears don't normally attack people. and cars don't normally run over kids
I think I wasn't worried as much about the danger factor as I was ticked off by the lack of organization in getting the kids into camp so they can set up and cook their dinner at a reasonable time. Bcause as you know, they have to do all this and more for themselves at these events. And hey, alot of them are only 12 years old.

 

[Cyriacus]

Your'e right, it's not a hotel. It's an organized event where rules and regultions apply. Kinda like your job and life in general. I was alot like you when I was growing up, so I understand your thiinking. Not sure if you have kids but my thinking changed when I had my kids.

If you have ever been in a camp with 400 young scouts, then you might understand the 10pm lights outs rule. The kids need to get some sleep for the 6am wake up call. Very busy day for everyone. I personally don't like going to bed that early but it is what it is.

Oh, of course they need sleep. But lets change the context. You kill a deer, its getting dark. You start to cut it up, then its 10pm. So you leave its body out and go to sleep, because some arbitrary time has rolled round. Of course they need to be regulated, but not if it interferes with their work

Anyway, i dont have kids. Maybe when i do ill change my tune!

 

[Xue Sheng]

I would have answered but I have been accused of (and rightfully so) of being the worlds most over protective dad. I likely would have alrady called in the Marines

 

[shesulsa]

My son is 14 and was hiking in with an older group at 12. Orienteering is important and it is very good to have at least a semi-controlled environment to do this in. Our leaders have tight eyes on the whereabouts of boys at night, even if stealthful and secretive or via just plain old outlooks.

I wouldn't worry TOO much about it. Then again, danger lurks EVERYWHERE. An 18-y/o at our camporee this weekend put an axe into his foot. Been using one for over six years.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

 

[granfire]

Your'e right, it's not a hotel. It's an organized event where rules and regultions apply. Kinda like your job and life in general. I was alot like you when I was growing up, so I understand your thiinking. Not sure if you have kids but my thinking changed when I had my kids.

If you have ever been in a camp with 400 young scouts, then you might understand the 10pm lights outs rule. The kids need to get some sleep for the 6am wake up call. Very busy day for everyone. I personally don't like going to bed that early but it is what it is.

:lol:
as if they sleep when the lights are off! Makes them so nice to have when they get back home, after the gear is unpacked!

Good post Granfire. And your right, coyotes and bears don't normally attack people. and cars don't normally run over kids
I think I wasn't worried as much about the danger factor as I was ticked off by the lack of organization in getting the kids into camp so they can set up and cook their dinner at a reasonable time. Bcause as you know, they have to do all this and more for themselves at these events. And hey, alot of them are only 12 years old.

Yes, a lot of them are only 12. A lot are older.
And almost all of them lead a very sheltered life, without chores, etc or another worry in their lives.

It is good for them to do things for themselves! GOOD!

Yes, I am a scout mom and volunteer. It's part of the experience to make the little munchkins do for themselves! Because they can.
They won't when mom or dad hover over them, but will when it's just them. They will help each other, quarrel, but in the end they will get there. And they will have grown as a person!

12 years is not really that young. we are blessed tat our kids get to be kids for a long time, heck, some don't grow up past their 20s.
Other kids their age have to provide and support their families, a little hike and pitching a tent and cooking dinner is nothing they can't handle!

Plus they will appreciate the services at home much more, including a nice warm room, soft bed and a meal that isn't burned!

I did mention, I am mean that way, right?

Repeat after me: Mom/Dad does not work here.

then sit back, and enjoy watching the kids work. best thing ever!

Last year we sent our boys on a 50 miler. It was in the mid 90s, the trail was paved, mostly out in the sun.
now, there were adult leaders with them, and they were never but a shout or a phone call away from civilization, but this trip was a B****! Don't get me wrong, they all wanted to quit, I think even the leaders, but even with blisters and sunburn, they all finished!
At the end of day three, it just happened that the parents piled into the camp and stayed until after dark. Several of the boys became a bit whiny and clunk to mom and dad, but when the parents left, not one boy left with them!

And some made motions to try it again....but gosh, as committee, while they did 50, we did 150 miles! we were ALL pooped when it was over!

Those are the events that good campfire stories are made off: Remember the Camporee, when Soandso got us lost and we didn't make camp til 10:30?

(btw, the poor kids didn't have to walk 50 miles, only 20, the other 30 they did in canoes, much more pleasant than the paved trail! )

 

[jks9199]

Go and talk to them. you have concerns, and you need to have them addressed . But its really not that big a deal, in my opinion. I am assuming that they had the proper training and equipment to make the hike in.

Its pretty basic orienteering assuming they were given the proper tools and training. the only concern I see is that they may not have been given enough time to reasonably cover the ground and set up camp.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Carol]

It sounds like great experience.

My first time out after dark, I was hiking in the Presidentials with a few hiking friends, after overstaying our time on the trail. As we were making our way back to the car, my hiking buddy asked what that blinkinh light was in the distance. I looked up and saw a light with an orange cast, occasionally flashing. It seemed to be coming from another peak in the range. I wondered aloud just who the heck was shining a sodium lamp way out here. When the sky cleared a bit, we all had a good chuckle over our misperception. The "sodium lamp" was the rising moon, colored by an autumn haze. The "flashing" was from clouds and distant trees temporarily occluding its view as the wind blew. :lol:

Everything in the back country seems bigger, farther, stranger, and even more other-worldly at night. To be able to keep their wits about them and succeed with breaking trail to camp as the sun sets is a realistic skill that will serve them well. Its an experience that will carry them a lot farther than the discipline of lights out for that particular night.

 

[Tames D]

Thanks everyone for the valuable opinions and advice. I can see now that I overreacted (duh).