what makes it kenpo?

[Billy Lear]

First, if you are going to quote me, put my words in the correct context and don't manipulate them.

Second, I think I met you in Las Vegas a few years ago at Jeff Speakman's Annual Kenpo Camp. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we discuss a guy named Aaron Wheeler while I was passing out flyers for Frank Trejo's tournament? If that wasn't you, I must have you mixed up with a much nicer guy.

Third, You seem to have a personal issue with me. Your condescending approach on this board does not speak very highly of you or your instructor right now. You've successfully pissed off a lot of people in a very short amount of time. Some of them have more time in the art than you've been alive. I suggest you re-think the way you approach people in the future.

Fourth, fortunately for you "My" world is a little larger than you think. If my world were smaller... I'd be in my car driving over to have a little chat with you right about now. If you think I'm all talk, and no play... you're wrong. I've always wanted to visit Spokane.

Lastly, I will fight you or any other black belt that disrespects me without prior cause. I'm sure there will be a time and place where we can finish this in the future. Don't forget to eat your Wheaties... I have a long memory.

Sincerely,
Billy Lear, UKS :asian:

 

[Robbo]

I'm waiting for some intelligent replys to the question of what makes Kenpo Kenpo and I keep reading these really bad posts about who insulted who.

Give it a rest and get back to the subject.

Rob

 

[tonbo]

Okay, my unsolicited take on the whole thing:

It's like cooking, IMHO. You have trademark elements of a style, just like you might have trademark sauces, spices, or even foods of a particular ethnicity.

For Kenpo, the theories of motion, the terminology, the creeds, the forms, the philosophies, etc. .....these are what make the art what it is. It doesn't matter whether it is EPAK Kenpo, Bob's Kenpo, or Billy Joe's Magic Ninja Kenpo.....it is still, at it's heart, Kenpo.

If I were to use fake crab meat (you know the stuff..) when rolling sushi, is it still sushi? What if I am not a certified sushi chef? Well, yes....it is still inherently sushi. It may not be true Japanese, master-crafted sushi, but it will do in a pinch. Same here. If you take the theories behind Kenpo, use the ideas and terminology, and so forth......you can call your style whatever you want to, but it will still inherently be "kenpo" at it's heart.

Kenpo, like any other martial art, does not reside mainly in the blocks and strikes of the art. Most martial arts use the same strikes and blocks, although some will vary the angles, names, etc. The variance in the arts comes mainly from their philosophies, histories, and "seasoning" that they have. Arts that develop from a war-based, no-nonsense culture, for example, will be a bit different from arts developed by a peaceful, isolated culture. It's just the nature of the beast.

My very simple point is this: If you feel the need to change an art, then do it. Call it what you will. Be the super-awesome, most godlike, ascendent, resplendant Grandmaster Poobah, if you wish. However, if you base your style on the theories and basis of Kenpo, it is *still* an offshoot of Kenpo. No getting around that.

Okay, now on to the other stuff. Look, to quote the Grandmaster Monty Python: "Look, this is supposed to be a *happy* occasion. Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who....". Can't we just agree to disagree, and pick up from there? Hey, if someone wants to tell me that what I am doing is not "true" Kenpo, well, fine. That's their opinion. *My* opinion is that I practice an "offshoot" of Kenpo, and that's what I'm going to call it: Kenpo. Does someone putting a different name to an art change the fact that those that *know* Kenpo will see it for what it is?

To leave with a few quotes:

"A rose by any other name still smells just as sweet" (okay, I know that's not the exact quote.....sorry, but I'm at work)

"I yam what I yam" (from another venerable master)

"If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck."

"DUCK!!"

All respect intended. Flames ignored, opinions appreciated.

Peace-- :asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

This thread got some blood flowing!:rofl:

What makes Kenpo Kenpo for me is the logical approach to the martial arts. Mr. Parker evaluated what he was taught (and continued to learn) and considered his "street" experience and developed a pragmatic approach to self defense. Of course it expanded way beyond just self defense once he got the ball rolling and widened the base to also include many other aspects.

The "Kenpo Tools" tm aka all the essential factors that make up the Art (principles, concepts, web of knowledge, universal pattern, equation formula, terminology, 3 points of view, etc., etc.) all contribute to my (our) definition of KENPO.

I believe that Kenpo is the Best Art there is....... (bias I realize, but hey.........) I feel we have the ultimate [if utilized and focused upon] such as: we have just as many or more kicks than TKD and can or have the ability to do them better if worked, we have the power of shotokan if focused on, we have the redirection of Aikido when utilized, we have the flow and beauty of any of the Kung/Gung/Gong fu systems when wanted, we have the sweeps, reaps, and throws of Judo if desired, we have the skills of a boxer, or grappler, or the option of various weapons from swords, knives, clubs, spears, quando's, chain whips, bull whips, throwing stars........ and on and on and on. But............. it all depends on the individual and his/her experiences and journey, desires and instruction that is essential. It doesn't just flow up to your door step automatically! Seek and ye shall find. :shrug:

I enjoy my colorful mix of material that I have experienced and will continue to explore and share that material with my students 'till I end my existence on this planet.

To me............ no matter what I do........... IT IS KENPO.

:asian:

 

[Disco]

First, let me state that I am an outsider to Kenpo. Mabey with this aspect, I could give a different viewpoint.

I asked a Kenpo person many, many years ago, "what makes your art different from the others"? This was his answer.........................

"Kenpo is a mindset. We train to make that mindset a reality. That mindset is...... total annihilation"!

So with that as a base of reference, I would say Kenpo is Kenpo. Really dosen't matter who, why or where. Kenpo is Kenpo!

The one thing aside from the above, and this is a personal observation. You Kenpo people sure are PASSIONATE about your art. I do envy you all for that, your one big family.
:asian:

 

[jeffkyle]

Very Well put Mr C.!

 

[lonekimono]

what a way to start your day, a cup of coffee and martial talk,,
and oh yes my meds and oh billy don't go to spokan i was there it rains ALL THE TIME .
and now to get to the point, WHY are people ripping each other apart over kenpo "WHO CARES" if they want to do something other than the way you/we/ me do it i don't care!!
like i said before it's the way we write not print, we start out printing and learn how to write ( thats means to flow).

anyway :rofl:

ps Mr C you know me,i love how u say thing's

 

[Billy Lear]

Originally posted by lonekimono
what a way to start your day, a cup of coffee and martial talk,,
and oh yes my meds and oh billy don't go to spokan i was there it rains ALL THE TIME .
and now to get to the point, WHY are people ripping each other apart over kenpo "WHO CARES" if they want to do something other than the way you/we/ me do it i don't care!!
like i said before it's the way we write not print, we start out printing and learn how to write ( thats means to flow).

anyway :rofl:

ps Mr C you know me,i love how u say thing's

Elmer,

I responded to the guys posts intelligently, and without insult. He insists on being a jerk.

I personally think that Kaith should have deleted Touch "O" Death after he called Kaith a racist in the Locker Room. The "Seig heil" comment that was posted there wasn't very much better either since Mike Seigel is Jewish and he probably had family die in the holocaust.

As for the topic on this thread... I think there is a point that it isn't Kenpo anymore, and that to me is when the basics are altered to a point that they cannot be identified as being Kenpo anymore. Not one or two minor changes in the system, but something that drastically changes it in it's entirety.

Sincerely,
Billy Lear, UKS :asian:

 

[tonbo]

You Kenpo people sure are PASSIONATE about your art. I do envy you all for that, your one big family.

Amen.

Let's keep it that way...

:asian:

Peace--

 

[Billy Lear]

Originally posted by tonbo
Amen.

Let's keep it that way...

:asian:

Peace--

I agree! :asian:

 

[Michael Billings]

... but hey, what family isn't?

Awesome posts in bring this thread back around. Thanks guys.

Oss!

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Billy Lear
First, if you are going to quote me, put my words in the correct context and don't manipulate them.

Second, I think I met you in Las Vegas a few years ago at Jeff Speakman's Annual Kenpo Camp. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we discuss a guy named Aaron Wheeler ...
Lastly, I will fight you or any other black belt that disrespects me without prior cause. I'm sure there will be a time and place where we can finish this in the future

Oh yea, I remember you. You were telling me how you were going to beat up Aaron Wheeler and just getting all worked up talking about it. I can only assume that fight didn't occur because you would be that grease spot his dogs licked up off the carpet. So I made your list, what an honor. Perhaps instead of making lists of all the people you plan to beat up you should quit Kenpo and work on that list of personality traits that makes you so hostile. You can go ahead and dis my instructor but I wonder about your instructor teaching such an angry person. you still havent listed any specific things that make a move non-kenpo. Do you know what your talking about?

 

[Billy Lear]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Oh yea, I remember you. You were telling me how you were going to beat up Aaron Wheeler and just getting all worked up talking about it. I can only assume that fight didn't occur because you would be that grease spot his dogs licked up off the carpet. So I made your list, what an honor. Perhaps instead of making lists of all the people you plan to beat up you should quit Kenpo and work on that list of personality traits that makes you so hostile. You can go ahead and dis my instructor but I wonder about your instructor teaching such an angry person. you still havent listed any specific things that make a move non-kenpo. Do you know what your talking about?

As I recall you were the one that wanted to kick Aaron's *** not me... as I recall it was because he was teaching so close to your school...

And, oh yes... you're the only one on my list. :shrug:

As for me giving up Kenpo, you should pray that I do. :asian:

 

[Michael Billings]

You are chasing each other from thread to thread fighting. From the Circle of Doom to this one. It is getting nasty and NOT APPRECIATED.

Billy, I know you are responding or reacting. Touch'O'Death thrives on the controversy. Treat his posts as if that is the hidden intent. What is he getting out of the interactions, since it is not learning or information. Vicarious sublimation? Safe Aggression? Etc. I know you, so I am addressing you and not him. I don't want to play with him NO MO', so I won't. You on the other hand are not in the same boat at all. Rise above it Brudda.

Keeping the Flame Alive!

 

[lonekimono]

Hey MR DEATH knock it off this has got to stop !!!
and you my friend show no way that you are a true martial art's person,what's with all the little kid NAME CALLING
these people on MARTIAL TALK(most of them) are my friends and brother's/sister's in the art's.
I don't know where you came from and i'm not going to say anything bad about you and whatever system you do, but let's act like we have some gray matter left:asian:
so please lets get on with the post and have some good times.

thank you

know what you know,,you know the rest

:asian: :asian:

 

[Jay Bell]

Hey folks...please tone it down a bit. We're adults, not kids on a playground...

 

[lonekimono]

Been saying the same thing:asian:

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Billy Lear
As I recall you were the one that wanted to kick Aaron's *** not me... as I recall it was because he was teaching so close to your school...

And, oh yes... you're the only one on my list. :shrug:

As for me giving up Kenpo, you should pray that I do. :asian:

Well, you remember wrong. I don't own a school. The instructor at the school I currently train in was not happy. I met Arron and hung out a little. Your exact words were "when I get my hands On him..." Sounds like you doesnt it?

 

[Billy Lear]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Sounds like you doesnt it?

Nope, but things change... Don't they. :shrug:

 

[tshadowchaser]

Ok folks this is an official warning stop the name calling and challanges or take some time off from the forum.
We enjoy haveing all of you post but keep it friendy and respectful.
There will not be a 2nd warning

tshadowchaser
moderator