What is your standards for requirements to be a black belt?

still learning

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Hello, The topic of "should kids be promote to black belt" is interesting with lot s of info's and toughts

That brings this topic " What is your standards of what a black belt should be and for promotion requirements?

Should we set up a National and maybe a International requirements of Standards? For Black belts?

As we age should those requirements be always met? Like fire fighters and the navy seals. Could we lose the right to carry a black belt because we no longer train as hard? (If a national standards were set, physcial and mental)

Make a list of what should be a standard requirement to be promoted to a black belt? Make it for all ages and years of practice? and what if they quit and stop training, or ageing? (should they still have the ranking) since a standard was set?

Just a thought? ......Aloha
 

shinbushi

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I'll bite,
If a standard is to be set let us use BJJ. Takes about 10 years and you need to beable to handle yourself when you roll (Spar) with other blackbelts.
 

Sapper6

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creating a blanket standard for such an accolade is not fathomable. a black belt should be looked at as nothing more than a representation of training (not knowledge) attained in a specific system of fighting. you couldn't possibly begin to create such a standard that applied to any group of completely separate ideals (systems, styles, schools, organizations, etc.)

Like fire fighters and the navy seals. Could we lose the right to carry a black belt because we no longer train as hard? (If a national standards were set, physcial and mental)

this principle is already in place, just so happens it's not a governing body making the determination. you no longer train as hard...? perhaps you wouldn't lose your black belt, but more likely, you'd lose an eye, the ability to chew your own food, or even more, your life.

each system, school, and organization has its own standard in place for receiving such an accolade. let them decide who is worthy of it, or not. whether they realize it or not, a specifc school's black belts should be a representation of the school itself. if people find they have 15 year old power rangers running the playground representing them, then that's their own fault & problem.
 

Andrew Green

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I'm kinda of the "If you think the belt system is broken, use something else" opinion.

There is no plausible way that a standard for ranking can be set across the board. No one agrees and not everyone will "play".
 

evenflow1121

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One universal standard would not work, no one wants to have another individual from a different system tell them how to run their curriculum. I am not so much for issuing belts anymore as I am for issuing instructor certificates. Forget bb, and have no ranks, just train, when you have met the requirements to become a certified instructor you get your certificate. Should not lose your bb once you attain as a matter of age or disability if it happens.
 

arnisador

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All these things are system-dependent. But, I can't see black belts below 16, and 18 isn't a bad idea either.
 

Spookey

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Dear All,

I believe that when something is broken you should attempt to fix it!

This is attainable in the martial arts by insuring your students represent the rank well. Slow down promotions and see that the old world standards are met and more so exceeded!

For that very reason I recommend our BB's not stripe their belts...Let the technique speak for itself. We should attempt to raise the bar not lower it or accept its current position.

Finally, if they cant hang with the adult blackbelts dont acknowledge them as such!

TAEKWON!
SpooKeY
 

hammer

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Andrew Green said:
I'm kinda of the "If you think the belt system is broken, use something else" opinion.

There is no plausible way that a standard for ranking can be set across the board. No one agrees and not everyone will "play".
So true, Many systems have decreased the requirements for "Black belt" over time, for whatever reason, "commercialism comes to mind" some say watered down,

I think it would be a great start to teach the full requirements of said system,

On a side note

To include addition requirement's as time grows. We are at a very fortunate place in time, The wealth of information that is out there, has practically no restrictions on it, As to who can learn it, The doors are open! Whether it be the Chinese Arts, Japanese Arts, Philippine Arts what have you, It is literally a Martial arts Smorguest Board, Not to mention the evolution with in one's own art.

Yet many have taken the reverse approach,

And so sadly with children, my own views are that we should never have initiated giving rank to children to begin with. Yet have taken the approach in "skilling" children, simply divided as a beginner’s class, intermediate, Advanced and learning the material contained within each level to be the recognition that the student is looking for. To value what is being shared with them,

Before inducting the student into the main stream school or giving of rank.
"A pre -apprenticeship" if you will
As time has pasted I think we have it backwards, and yes I to am aware of the reasons for such,

Just a thought

Cheers
Hammer
 
T

TKDKid

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Well, in my Tae Kwon Do school it takes about five years for a black belt...if you're diligent.

On the test you must perfomorm all the forms you've learned for your previous belts plus one new one, for a total of 15 forms. You must do all 35 one steps, and demonstrate a proficency in self defense against a variety of attacks. After that you are required to spar with three different people for three minutes each. After sparring you then have to break one brick with your hand, and one with your foot.
 

MJS

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still learning said:
Hello, The topic of "should kids be promote to black belt" is interesting with lot s of info's and toughts

That brings this topic " What is your standards of what a black belt should be and for promotion requirements?

Each system/style would have to create their own set rules/regs. One thing that should be standard IMO is an age requirement for BB.

Should we set up a National and maybe a International requirements of Standards? For Black belts?

Same as above. Each style would have to set their own requirements.

As we age should those requirements be always met? Like fire fighters and the navy seals. Could we lose the right to carry a black belt because we no longer train as hard? (If a national standards were set, physcial and mental)

Not sure if there are any PD's out there that re-cert their officers on physical requirements. Mostly just recerts on weapons, cuffing, etc.

Make a list of what should be a standard requirement to be promoted to a black belt? Make it for all ages and years of practice? and what if they quit and stop training, or ageing? (should they still have the ranking) since a standard was set?

Again, each style should have their own. However, once you reach BB, you've reached it. Can an org. remove you? Sure. Can they take that rank from you? No.

Mike
 
S

Satori

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I like the idea of a "National Requirement Set", but that would ruin the idea of independent martial arts styles.

For instance, take your average Tracy Kenpo Shodan and your average "Freestyle" Karate/Kickboxing Black Belt.

The Tracy Kenpo Shodan will have, in all likelihood, over 250 techniques (with or without variations) and a dozen katas.

The "Freestyle" Karate/Kickboxing Black Belt will probably know NO specific techniques (as kenpo recognizes it) or katas, but will be capable of going for 12 rounds at 100% with a fully resisting opponent at full-contact.

Who says which is more appropriate for black belt?

May you achieve
Satori
 

searcher

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Spookey said:
Dear All,

I believe that when something is broken you should attempt to fix it!
This is attainable in the martial arts by insuring your students represent the rank well. Slow down promotions and see that the old world standards are met and more so exceeded!
We should attempt to raise the bar not lower it or accept its current position.
SpooKeY
I agree with these points fully. If they can't meet the standards then don't promote them.
icon14.gif
 

dsp921

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I see no way to get a national standard of any kind to work. Schools in the same system do things differently and can't agree on everything, how would it be possible to get all styles and all systems to standardize? How could you get everyone to be part of this process? It makes more sense to do your research, fine a school/instructor that meets your requirements and expectations and train with them. If a school/system doesn't conduct themselves to your liking, go elsewhere. Worrying about what everyone else is doing is futile, worry about yourself and your training. If you are satisfied with your situation that's all that really matters. A school down the road giving rank by different standards or no standards doesn't change what I learn, how I train, or my abilities, so why worry about it?
 

DavidCC

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We use a pretty simple yardstick.


Each individual I have promoted to black belt has worked for many years and made significant sacrifices to reach this level. In my view, attaining a black belt should be a noteworthy accomplishment requiring hard work, self-discipline, and a commitment to success. Unlike some martial arts instructors, I have never promoted any of my students to the status of “junior black belt,” “recommended black belt” or “probationary black belt.” To earn a black belt from me, a student must be able to defend himself or herself against an adult.
-from http://www.christophergeary.com
 

arnisador

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Yes, defend against an adult seems like the right standard to me too--not just against someone else of the same age/size. That's fine for a sport, but not if you claim you're teaching self-defense. Most serious attacks are done by adult-sized attackers, be they in their late teens or older.
 

TigerWoman

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DavidCC said:
We use a pretty simple yardstick.



-from http://www.christophergeary.com

Said to be simple, may not be so simple. A junior black belt, age 12+in our organization has to complete what an adult does. He does the full 3-4 hr. test. And he does spar against adults one on one, two on one, three on one, multiple matches. He then becomes a recommended black belt (half red-half black). After six months or so, he then is eligible to do the test over again, with more stuff, more breaking, more sparring, and after that gets his full dan. But is still does not get the dan certificate until 18 under WTF rules. Not much more you can ask of someone of that age.

I am noticing no one is posting their exact standards..their exact test.TW
 

dsp921

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TigerWoman said:
Said to be simple, may not be so simple. A junior black belt, age 12+in our organization has to complete what an adult does. He does the full 3-4 hr. test. And he does spar against adults one on one, two on one, three on one, multiple matches. He then becomes a recommended black belt (half red-half black). After six months or so, he then is eligible to do the test over again, with more stuff, more breaking, more sparring, and after that gets his full dan. But is still does not get the dan certificate until 18 under WTF rules. Not much more you can ask of someone of that age.

I am noticing no one is posting their exact standards..their exact test.TW
DavidCC's standard is simple, what it boils down to is that someone is promoted to BB when his instructor thinks they are ready. What gets complicated is when you try to apply their standard to your school or situation. It's all way to subjective to try to do that.

As for exact standards, I had to perform all my basics, techniques, forms, weapon defenses (gun, knife (live blade), club, chair, 2x4, crowbar, hammer, and whatever else he could find), spar, grapple and break at a level of proficiency that my instructor deemed acceptable to prove to him I had earned the rank. That is probably very similiar to many peoples test, the only differences being the material and what the instructor(s) thought was acceptable.
 

shesulsa

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TigerWoman said:
I am noticing no one is posting their exact standards..their exact test.TW
It could be that some schools just don't share curriculum requirements in detail. That's just the way it's done for some.
 

DavidCC

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Oh, that's not our only criteria... we do have very specific curriculum that must be learned and executed at full speed, against fully resistant adults: 26 empty-hand defenses, 10 knife defenses, 10 club defenses, 10 gun defenses, 15 grab defenses, also 10 kata which I guess you don't execute "against fully resistant adults" :) Also sparring single and multiple opponents.

We have 13, 14 yr olds who are at the 3rd or 4th kyu ranks as far as performing the material... but that is not enough, they are just too "small" to generate enough power to neutralize an adult. I imagine it would be possible but I haven't seen the kid that could do it yet. Their little bodies are just to fragile... We also have a 16 yr-old or 2 who do have the physical development required, but they are only 5th kyu at best... by the time they are ready to test for black they will be fully grown.
 

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